hyperloop section tutorials
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_180turns_MV.html
matt does a number of tangled buzzsaws and finally a couple of airwraps.. these are tangled buzzsaws because (if I see the video correctly, since it happens so fast) the tanlge occurs as he enters the buzzsaw... It does not hyperloop because it does not carry into any other plane... the tanlge occurs going into the buzzsaw and untangles exiting the buzzsaw, turn into another tangled buzzsaw...
tanlged buzzsaw are part of the airwrap classification because they change sides in the same plane, but not to other planes.. in other words, this is a normal airwrap tangle in the buzzsaw position.
the airwraps occur in the front wall plane
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_fwd_across_MV.html
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_fwd_across_FV_MV.html
in these, especially the latter, we can see matt showing us a tangled buzzsaw... notice how it tanlges entering the buzzsaw and untanlges as it exits...this is an excellent video to note the difference between a tangled buzzsaw and a hyperlooping buzzsaw (outside inside outside hyperloop) in the front view you can clearly see how it tanlges inbetween his arms and untangles in bewtween his arms... this is an airwrap because it is contained solely in the buzzsaw plane and is incoorporated into the weave... thus having it weave into the tangles buzzsaw and back out.. this motion if isolated will give you the buzzsaw weave...
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_side_MV.html
this is a perfect example of an airwrap.. here we see the airwrap tangling in the outer wall plane and ending in the inner wall plane...
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_side_wrist_stop_MV.html
gotta love those tangle wraps..
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_bwd_across_FV_MV.html
here we see a reverse tangled buzzsaw.. notice the poi coming bewteen the arms to tangle...
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_fwd_across_inout_FV_MV.html
now we see matt doing a hyperloop.. a crazy and not very basic hyperloop... notice how he starts with an airwrap (tanlgebuzzsaw) but instead of untangling he carries the poi on to other planes.. in order to do this he has to find timing that will keep the string tanlged during its revolutions in order to get it to travel to the other planes while still tangled.. this is what hyperloops derive from and involve manipulating the tangle..
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_fwd_across_outside_FV_MV.html
FINALLy the basic hyperloop.. matt is having trouble keeping his hands straight but I'm sure this was new for him at the time... notice how his hands are almost parallel, one over the other.. this facilitates a tangle outside the arms which then untangles on the other side... it helps to keep your arms locked as you bring it from one side to the other.. think of it like this. in the vid we see matt going from side plane to side plane... now imagine this from the side view... for an airwrap it would have tangled as it did, and then untangled on the inside of our arms (inside right wall plane, not buzzsaw plane) instead he manipulated the tanlge so that it could be carried to the other side (left side plane) the outer right side plane and the outer left side plane function the same as a outer rightside plane and an inner right side plane..
if you go back to the airwrap link
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_side_MV.html
you will notice that the process of going form outside to inside is the same as going from outside in front to (if it weer possible) outside in back.. now since you can't go from outside to outside of a wall plane (because your bodyu is in the way) you ahve to go around it.. which takes some manipulating of the tangle and the tangle timing... (easier then it sounds)
now going back to our basic hyperloop
http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_fwd_across_outside_FV_MV.html
we can imagine ahyperlooping buzzsaw.. it would tanlge where it does, only pass through the buzzsaw before reaching the other side and untangling as it does... this is easy to do.. all matt has to do is take his normal hyperloop and instead of letting the poi spin to the left side, he should move his left hand to the left with the poi... this will have the poi spin to the left side of his body, but still between his arms and thus in the buzzsaw.. they will continue on their own moving left until the get past his left hand (and thus outside the left side) where they untangle as normal.. once he gets the hang of thehyperlooping buzzsaw, the planes will straighten and it will pass more towards the center... hopefully I can get some vids to him or somethign.. I ahte not having money..
anyway.. I hope this helps clear up some of the tutorials.. If you have any questions on the why and how, feel free to post and I'll elaborate more..
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Comments
hyperloop section tutorials
Brilliant Rev,
That has totally cleared up the problems I was having understanding you.
Thank you very much. I think this thread is gonna clear it up for a whole lot of poiple.
Nice One,
¦m¦
hyperloop section tutorials
[quote="Rev"]http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_180turns_MV.html
matt does a number of tangled buzzsaws and finally a couple of airwraps.. these are tangled buzzsaws because (if I see the video correctly, since it happens so fast) the tanlge occurs as he enters the buzzsaw... It does not hyperloop because it does not carry into any other plane... the tanlge occurs going into the buzzsaw and untangles exiting the buzzsaw, turn into another tangled buzzsaw...
hyperloop section tutorials
Ah ah,
I'm begining to see why there is such confusion whenever poiple start talking about airwraps and hyperloops. I believe it's a matter of geography, we're on one side of the atlantic, you're on the other, you say TomAdo we say Tom-ar-to
¦m¦
hyperloop section tutorials
[quote="spiralx"][quote="Rev"]http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_180turns_MV.html
hyperloop section tutorials
I still think you're missing my point
There's a line between your two hands which defines the border between "inside" and "outside", nothing else. It doesn't matter whether the tangle occurs to the right of your left hand or not, it matters whether the point of tangle is inside or outside of this line. Now I'm not saying it's not impossible to do an inside tangle, but it's not what's happening here.
Matt do you agree with me? In order to do the across the body hyperloop you break the planes so that the tangle forms on the outside of this line? The captions in your videos seem to agree...
Airwraps are symmetrical about this line, hyperloops travel along it. When you start thinking about other planes and so on the only definition that makes sense is the line between your hands as being the border...
And I can do the same move we're talking about starting on the left side with my right hand to the left of my left hand and exiting on the right with my left hand to the right of my right hand... definitely not in between there at all!
hyperloop section tutorials
by your definition they still apply...
see the tanlged buzzsaw is an airwrap because the line it moves about is the buzzsaw line.. it tanlges to the right of center and untangles to the left of center.... the center and both sides are within the buzzsaw plane (i.e. between the hands... to the left of the right hand and to the right of the left hand..)
it does travel across the body.. but not tangled... and that's the importance of the distinguishment.. I acknowledge what your saying...
for a hyperloop you have to break more then one line... theres one on the right side and one on the left side... and it crosses those... and potentially, it passes a third when it goes through the buzzsaw plane..
I dunno.. people will call things whatever they want... the glowkids call some of them orbitals.. other people refer to all of them as airwraps.. it doesn't matter.. well it does.. but I'm not trying to force the issue.. just explain a take on it.. I just think that a hyperlooping buzzsaw and the matt's tangled buzzsaw are different and can't be classifed thusly if they are all called hyperloops.. or if they are all called airwraps..
hyperloop section tutorials
My point was that saying "to the left of the right hand and to the right of the left hand" is irrelevant, it's whether they're inside or outside of the line between your hands. You yourself say that airwraps are an outside-inside or inside-outside move despite the fact that they tangle and untangle to the left of the right hand and to the right of the left hand... you're agreeing with me!
[quote="Rev"]http://www.spherculism.com/tutorials/hyperloop/hyperloop_side_MV.html
this is a perfect example of an airwrap.. here we see the airwrap tangling in the outer wall plane and ending in the inner wall plane...
hyperloop section tutorials
yes I am agreeing.. because the line between the hands.. seperates the outside from the inside
M #1
outside
L---------R
inside
the problem is that with the buzzsaw.. the plane is a side plane in front.. so it becomes like this
M #2
L | R
so outside and inside are both within the inside of the arms... think of the model #1 and turn it sideways sso that its like the side weave plane..
M#3
I L o
n | u
s | t
i R
d
e
now that is the buzzsaw plane or at least the line.. but since you cant do a buzzsaw with your hand slike that it becomes more like this
M #4
L----|-----R
In-|-out
when your hands are striaght in the buzzsaw... this is why an airwrap in the buzzsaw stays airwrapping (i.e. neither wrapping nor unwrapping in sort of a limbo state until you exit.. It keeps wrapping back exactly as much as it unwraps, because it can't cross the line the way it needs too...
in other words, it can't
loop here | and loop here
without tanlging around the string between the left and right hands liek this
L------R
^ string
so it can only tangle and untangle upon entry and exit.. or by other motionx wholey withint the buzzsaw, but that's a mroe detailed account of isolating tangles andI'll go into that another time...
I agree with what your saying.. you just haveto see that a buzzsaw plane is not a wall plane but liek a side wall plane...you get the same effect as a tangled buzzsaw when you airwrap and pull just right...
A
L------R
_____B
the poi will come up at A but go down at B instead of
coming up at C goign down d coming up e and going down f
C---->D
L------R
E----->F
you follow me?
I'm not saying all this to be prickish... and I hope I'm not pissing you off
hyperloop section tutorials
Thanks for the diagrams and the explaination... I think I see exactly where you're coming from now. I'm not sure I agree with thinking about it that way yet though
I shall have to wait until I get home and have a play and see which definition is more fruitful 
Same here! I'm not offended, all this poi geekery leads to new ideas
hyperloop section tutorials
cool deal.. see those diagrams helped me a learn a little bit as well... they kinda solidified <for me at least> the airwrap thing since now I understand why the extended airwrap and the tangled buzzsaw look the same.. It also helps to explain that weird perpetual airwrap motion that comes from just holding a tangle in the buzzsaw.. well, I should have a tangle theory post up by next weekend.. I have some time off for Mardi Gras, and no $$$ to go anywhere.. so.. :56
hyperloop section tutorials
Well I've had a bit more study on your post and agree with you... but our terminology is fucked! Maybe we need to distinguish the following planes...
Outside (where your right hand is when doing a weave and it's over the left)
Outside-inside (where you start a hyperloop from and ends)
Inside-inside (where a buzzsaw airwrap thingy would exit)
Inside (where the middle of a hyperloop goes)
Aaaagh!
hyperloop section tutorials
nah.. our words are fine.. you just have to get some vids out there to show people differences like tangled buzzsaw vs hyperlooping buzzsaw... from there I thinks its all gravy.. most people can identify a hyperloop, most people can identify an airwrap... most people have problems with the ones that sort of blur the edges, which is why a nice vid and some geek talk is sure to put things right..
ahh well.. I'm going to be late on the vid and tutorial.. I've got problems on the homefront and my my friend with cam wont' be able to swing this way until he fixes his car...
there's always hope.. but I'm not into that..
hyperloop section tutorials
Ok...
I need some help on this one spiralx...
there are 3 ways to airwrap in the front wall plane.. ok.. one is like a 2 circle hyperloop (in which the tangle is between handle and midchain).. one is like a 2 circle hyperloop (in wich the tanlge occurs between poi and midchain).. and one is like a tangled buzzsaw.. I bring this up because all three have the name airwrap... and all 3 can't be the same thing or all naming on this topic is going to fall down.. or maybe I'm just being to poi-geeky.. but seriosuly.. we try and give definition to airwrap or hyperloop.. and the best guess I can manage is hyperloop (via manipualtion of a tangle ) and airwrap (via being the tangle)
So check this out.. I feel that by refering to the tanlge itself as an airwrap helps solidify what it is, and by refering to hyperloops as manipulated tangles, we get a clearer idea of what they do... but we have a problem... that seems kinda vague.. but check but if we call them all airwraps then we have no way to distinguish one form from another..
let me illustrate..
if you hold one hand out further then the other when you do an airwrap, you get something like a tangled buzzsaw sideways.. this is the one that you can pull and spin all the way out.. its also the one that you can hold and let spin until it loses momentum.. in essence this is the tangle.. pure and clean... now if you take this basic tangle and move it around, it does a buzzsaw fountain.. so you know what thatmeans.. a tangled buzzsaw is just an airwrap that is perpendicular to the strings( and parallel to the hands) whereas a normal airwrap would be perpendicualr to the hands but nearly parallel with the strings..
d= down path, u= up path, L= left hand, R= right hand, ----=string, _= ignore that's for forum spacing.
ex. tangled buzzsaw
___d____
L---|----R
___u____
ex. airwrap
_______/d
L__--/--__R
u/
which helps to explain why a tanlged buzzsaw is an airwrap fine.. but more importantly gives a specific desgination to what the airwrap is.. thus the airwrap is entered and exited from like a tangeld buzzsaw is... refer back to the diagram..
does this make sense so far... this removes planes from the description as a whole...
now let's take the hyperloop.. hyperloop is maniuplation of a tangle yeah.. in other words its getting the tangle to move outside this inner movement.. in other words any time the tangle is manipulated in the outside then it is operating as a hyperloop.. for instacne.. lets take two examples.. the first is the 2circle hyperloop and the second is what might have once been called an airwrap.. think about the way the two circle hyperloop works.. think about a hyperloop in a corkscrew.. now point your hands down... you get a hyperloop that goes form the outer front wallpplane to the inner front wallplnae..
wiat.. you say that can't be.. so its just a hyperloop.. but check this out.. you can do it with longer then circles that would fit <between> the arms like the preverbial airwrap.. so in other words.. the confusion comes form inner wallplane and inverted wallplane
think of it like this... make to fists and bring them in front knuckle to knuckle.. the space between your arms is an inverted plane... the buzzsaw being 2 inverted sideplanes..
now lay your arms straight down at your sides.. there's this space between your arm and you.. that's the inner plane, where as on the other side of your arm is the outer plane.. lete me diagram..
/L R
|_X__|
ody
X is in the inverted plane
outer plane [left arm] innerplane {body} inner plane [right arm] outer plane
now think of your handsstraight down in front.. there is a space under them arms, but not bewteen them... does that make sense.. so that is the inner plane...
see the airwrap that we commonly know is entered and exited like a tangled buzzsaw, which goes from outer to INVERTED plane.. where as the hyperloop would go outer to inner.. it never passes through the arms.. like the airwrap does.. it can but you have to move your amrs back and forth like when doing hyperlooping buzzsaw in a corkscrew...
Airwraps are basically inverted moves.. either via the tanlged buzzsaw are via ending in the inverted plane.. either way.. so the understanding of the airwrap (i.e. understanding how the tangles operate) allow for hyperloops which are manipulations of said tangles so that the tangle may be carried about the planes..
I dunno.. the problem I have is that we ahve an isolated incident the airwrap, and the we have new formulas derived from this base principle which create the hyperloops.. yet in principle they are much in the same ie. I take beginning of airwrap A add airwrap C and the end of airwrap B and voila its a hyperloop.. that seems a bit dodgy.. but that the same time.. X is airwrap, Y is airwrap, z is airwrap.. X1 is blah aiwrap Y1 is also Blah airwrap.. I mean.. it falls down.. you can't have 3 different moves with the same name because how do you distinguish between their obvious differences..
I mean the difference between a tangled buzzsaw and a hyperloop is obvious.. that's the difference between hyperloop and airwrap no big deal, but then you ahve the hyperlooping buzzsaw, which is a hyperloop with an airwrap in the middle.. but that definition doesn't really make sense now does it.. or does it.. I mean once the hyperloop get into the buzzsaw you can halt it and untanlge it.. or pull it apart like an extended airwrap.. so technically that is an airwrap.. and what happens before and after is clearly the hyperloop.. which by the first line of the sentence we know are different.. so I mean is that it? is that all an airwrap is?
I've been working on the tanlge theory and this is my hangup... I can clearly divide everything up amoung categories this way.. but it seems off..
hyperloop section tutorials
I shall again have a think about this and get back to you, but I think you're there with your outer-inner-inverted-inner-outer planes.
Just as a point of interest if you put (code) (/code) tags (but change the brackets for square brackets []) around your diagrams they'll be in a fixed width font so you can line things up below each other properly
Not sure your term tangled buzzsaw now has much meaning if we're saying that an airwrap is stationary tangle, hyperloop moving tangle. After all it's just the result of moving the tangle around.
hyperloop section tutorials
well that's kinda why I feel like my heads going to pop with all this.. because an airwrap is a tangled buzzsaw done wallplane, so basically there are only two airwraps... and buzzsaw just distinguises the way its turned.. personally that's the only reason I see even salvaging it... The whole point of that digression was to try and show the difference between airwrap and hyperloop more critically.. because this kinda changes the given notion of the airwrap.. but I think gives a clearer to picture to the tangle stuff... I dunno.. I need to read up on plural zee alpha and do away with names altogether :50
hyperloop section tutorials
Ah but if you're doing an isolated buzzsaw and tangle then and keep the move going then the poi are in the same angles as if it was an airwrap. And if you do a out-in-out hyperloop but in the middle go into the above move, then the previously right-angled poi heads change orientation.
I think the direction of the poi heads is a red herring after all this discussion... we need to concentrate on entry and exit planes and the path of the point where the two tangle.
hyperloop section tutorials
see this is the issue I have with planes.. because from outer to inverted plane is airwrap, inverted to outer is airwrap... outer to inner is hyperloop... like outer to outer is hyperloop... BUT planer discussion falls down because you can start with an airwrap and move it to other planes.. and that just seems to be too confusing of a definition.. because if I put inverted in the definition of airwrap... then would a tangle that started inverted (like say in the buzzsaw) then exited right, came around 360, and ended back in the inverted plane an airwrap?
at what point does it cease to airwrap and hyperloop?
see I though about airwraps as being closer to the poi head and hyperloops closer to the handles.. but that doesnt' hold and leaves vague cases...
the clearest distinguishment I can make is airwrap being like a tangled buzzsaw in the wall plane... an exteded airwrap is when that momentum is carried out (most of the time by pulling) for a longer period of time... pull your strings apart during a tangled buzzsaw, that's the same as pulling an airwrap... and then hyperloop being a minpulation of the tangle fills in all the other gaps.. because when the tangle is moved (i.e. not stationary) then its a hyperloop..
think about the airwrap.. your hands are still. or at least they keep the tangle in the same plane..
a hyperloop, your hands are still but you move them to move the tangle from right to left, and so forth...
this even works for seemingly vague cases.. likle the outer to inner hyperloop.. (it tangles say outer wallplane and then you move your hands closer to the body to move the tangle to the inner plane...
and think about like a tangled buzzsaw, that you pull. so it becomes an extended airwrap (extended buzzsaw whatever) which can be moved about like a buzzsaw fountain... now since there are two buzzsaws planes that make up the buzzsaw fountain.. if it stays in one plane its an airwrap, but if it crosses planes then its a hyperloop... in other words.. if you do a tanlged buzzsaw and pull it pass the bottom 6:00 or top 12:00 position it would have to move the tangle to the other plane.. most times it will untanlge on its own when you try to cross this point.. but if you "manipulate the tangle' right you can get it to stay tangled across those points..
does that make sense...
so now planes don't really play as important of a part because it becomes focused on whether the tangle is moved.. its just important to note that the common airwrap, since its done like a tangled buzzsaw sideways.. means that it must still be treated like a tangled buzzsaw with respect to where we say the tangle can or can't move before being called hyperloop...
hyperloop section tutorials
Have been playing with lops alot recently and stumbled across this thread whilst loking for ideas... It has to be the best Rev and Spiralx puzzle it out thread I've read thus far....
Chut
hyperloop section tutorials
yeah.. this is why hyperloop and airwrap are entirely bogus terms.. that are misused more widely than any other term in poi...
even there at the end I failed in my attempt at making them clear..
perhaps its because hyperloop/aiwrap are not nexi specific.. and links are.. hrmmmmmmm...
its kinda like saying moving circles for weave and stationary cricles for butterfly.. it doesnt quite drill the point because it overlooks the critical area that defines the motion..
hyperloop section tutorials
Ahh this old chesnut
I think I understand the viewpoints on both sides now but it all comes down to:
[quote="rev"]hyperloop and airwrap are entirely bogus terms
hyperloop section tutorials
amen