atomic spin
ok so I figured out some of my confusion and understand what I've been doing seeing that's made antispin inversions so hard for me to understand..
atoms... ok.. so same direction and opposite direction is just a squashed form of atoms.. atoms being what you get when two centers of spin (the poi) come together..
I think this affects other centers spin as well.. with multiple center of spin moves you get the poi's center of spin (and poi) as one plane and move direction which is another center of spin, with a plane...
same direction spin- normal, when your hands move in the same direction as the poi
opposite direction spin- antispin, when your hands move opposite the poi
which are squashed forms of:
atomic spin- when the one center of spin is parallel with one axis and the other center of spin is parallel with another..
I thought about this with the butterfly weave/corkscrew thing I do that moves back and forth like a butterfly weave but the hands move in a twisting pattern like the bottom of a corkscrew..
I think this is why I might not be understanding the antispin inversions right.. I think I'm antispinning my weave and then turning into one of these samedirection atomic spin
inversion.. I've been writing off a lot of this atomic spin stuff as body movement.. just ways I could twist my arms and body to make the poi fit where they shouldnt.. now I think its really just mixing different types of spin to move the poi where I want.. kinda like 90 plane changes for center of spin..
hopefully someone will understand this.. and give me some feedback.. I dont know much about atoms.. muchless applying the knowledge of atoms to centers of spin. ..
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atomic spin
so your thinking, hands moving in atomic patterns with the poi staying in wall plane kinds of stuff?
atomic spin
yes. think of butterfly tangles. if there weren't some weave-like twisting, it would slide apart just like a buttefly, but it doesn't. the tangle itself is a planar corkscrew when the poi are crossing wallplane. the beginning of one of oli's vids here goes inside bf tangle to corkscrew to isolated forward weave motion well enough for illustration --
http://www.spherculism.com/poiple/modules.php?op=modload&name=4nAlbum&file=index&do=showpic&pid=63
i just melted my head yesterday trying to mesh horizontal butterfly tangles with wallplane weaves, so i feel your confusion on this. there's way way more transitions like this than we've codified. i started off trying to figure out how my buzzsaw turned into a horizontal butterfly so easily, then realizing the buzzsaw motion was basically what threads a normal butterfly. O.o i don't know if i've gotten much farther on base theory, but it's almost all i've been playing with lately. crap like this makes me love poi -- i have to continuously start back over from the ground up when something like this hits me.
hey rev, you want to come down to new orleans to spin this weekend, or do i need to stop by your place on my way back to TN?
-- dut
atomic spin
damn... why can you give a fool a heads up on these things rather than like a 48 hr notice
... send me an email to
I'll give you my number.. let me know when you are on your way back up, and hopefully we can work out a time for you to stop by.. I might only have time to show you a couple of tricks, not really a good spin session.. but a little time to show some stuff is better than nothing right.. how long have you been down anyway?
back on topic though-
I'm talking about the relationship between centers of spin.. when we tlak about atoms.. we are talking about a center of spin perpendicular to another center of spin.. hell perpendicular is only part of it.. like perfect planes.. a good example is good same direction has nice planes.. (perfect 0 degree) but sloppy same direction could have 15-30 degrees.. or something..
well I'm saying we can apply this to other centers of spin as well..
for a same direction atom you get CoS (center of spin) #1 as poi1(and arm1) and CoS #2 as poi2 (and arm2) and poi1 and arm1 and poi2 and arm2 are moving in the same direction..
for same direction atomic spin, you get coS1 as poi1(and 2) and CoS2 as arm1(and 2) and poi1&2 and arm1&2 are moving same direction..
for opposite direction atoms, you get cos1 (poi1 &arm1) and cos2 (poi2 and arm2) moving in opposite directions.. ie butterfly..
for oppposite direction spin, you get Cos1 (poi1&2) and cos2 (arm1 &arm2) moving in opposite direction.. ie antispin..
what I'm trying to get at here is that the instead of letting the arm and poi make up one center of spin.. let both poi make up a center of spin.. like a butterlfy or a weave where both poi revolve around the same center as a unit.. and let the hands tiwsting around each other represent another center of spin/unit.. thus allowing the hands to spin in a plane perpendicualr to the plane that the poi are spinning in.. it creates a little wobble in the poi when you do this.. because the poi are attached to the arms.. and so ifg my amr moves left my poi moves left.. but.. and this is a big but.. BUt the poi do not have to spin -in- that plane.. think of it like a 90 degree plane break in whihc the poi wobble a little but stay vertical.. while the hands spin horizontally.. its very heavily carry laden..
none of this has to be drastic.. I mean if I just twist my wrist around each other horizontallly.. that's a spin radius of my hands.. intersecting with a spin radius of my poi.. its still an atom.. but not all big and showy like poi atoms.. anyway.. I think we useit a lot and don't notice.. expecially when we are making poi fit where they arnt supposed to or spinning at angles we didnt think we could reach..
atomic spin
yeah, i was kinda kidding on the short notice, but i'd love to come back down that way in the next few weekends just to spin if you've got the time. i'm getting down there tomorrow just for the state palace party basically and to see a few friends. i'll definitely try to hollar at you sunday tho.
and on topic - this entire way of looking at things can be applied everywhere i bet. we're always applying circular/planar logic to 3d geometry, but my hands hardly ever travel just in the planes of my poi anymore. i love it.
-- dut
atomic spin
I'm not sure about its crossapplications.. I mean it only applies to things with direction.. which is tied to center of spin.. geometry.. and vectors..
I'm just trying to expand the atom idea to cover everything it should.. because all the atomic moves are just butterflies.. no matter what anyone tells you.. this actually gives the atom an application.. moves a step closer to 3d spinning.. takes the 90 degree plane changes up a level.. and is going to make tangle turns SOOOOOO Yummy.. muwahahaha..
atomic spin
Ok- Atomics question-
Is it the 'done thing' to spin atomics such that the poi make 2 diagonal planes peaking infront of you, or to spin one wallplane, one side plane?
I can do over-under out in the latter, but not the former. Technically both should be atomics, but I just wondered about conventions (not that they stand for anything really)
atomic spin
hey chut- arashi prefers them done at 45 degree angles (whihc would be diagonals)... which has them offset to al the major axi.. I however do them like most others parallel with the axi.. wall and wheel for example..
they are exactly the same its just harder to spin slanted like arashi wants, but you have the upside of always being off each axis by the same amount whihc makes for more fluid transitions..
and just so that we dont get confused, this post is not about atomics, but about atomic spin.. I know to that sounds like no differnce what so ever and in a way they arent.. but atomic spin produces atoms that dont look like atoms and invlves some very difficult techniques to master.. (no I'm not jumping on you chut, I just wanted to clarify so that people dont assume that one means the other when they see this thread and read us talking about normal atoms.. contiue to discuss atoms here as much as you like..)
atomic spin
I don't feel jumped on
Just confused
I'll go and re-read
atomic spin
lets talk abstractly for a moment..
lets start with an atom.. what is an atom? an atom is two centers of spin that intersect at 90 degree angles.. aptly named for the atom shape it makes when you bring your hands (the centers of spin) together to the same point, while the planes intersect perpendicularly..
what else do we have? well in the case of atomic weaves, we have 4 centers of spin.. we have two hands joined to form the atom.. and we have to shoulders moving the hands in a simlar direction.. as in the right arm moves in the same direction in the same plane as the right poi.. the left arm does the same for the left poi..
for clarification, you can think of a normal weave as being a 4 centers of spin. two hands moving in the same direction joined as one center, and two shoulders moving the hands in the same direction same plane..
antispin involves the two shoulders moving same direction, but opposite the direction of the hands (and thus poi)..
so antispin is like when the shoulders and the hands spin 'butterfly'.. normal spin is when the shoulders and the hands spin 'same direction'
atomic spin is when the shoulders and the hands spin 'atomically'
thus with atomic spin you get your arms (shoulder)moving perpendicular to the poi (hands)... this doesnt necessarily provide an atomic look of the poi but rather your motions realtive the poi.. as a consequence, it means that if you use atomic spin with atoms you get cubes.. :30
atomic spin
might be time for you to get that video camera out again and show us what its all about. some visual hypnosis would be well good to sort this kinda stuff out in my head
atomic spin
on the list.. butI've been so busy I still havent had time to add more poi goes punk tuts...
but its coming.. all in time..