longest hyperloop

damn..

[[EDIT ~ I just changed all the +1 0 -1 twists to +2 0 -2 beats (this is necessary because you can let 1 poi head go somewhere, which alters the tangle by half a twist, this is useful when turning]]

I have been meaning to make a 'Tangles' video for a while now, Jon was asking aout how you keep tangles going for a long time. Your video inspired me to make it

I'm gonna be making a load of tutorial vids soon, but i just don't know how to catagorise all the tangles.

Rev you must be able to help me out.

I mean i get the whole "-2 0 +2" thing

ie if you enter a tangle on the right hand side,
you can spin continuously in the middle, (this is what's meant by "Inverted")
this is '0' because you don't add more twists or take them away. (actually it's more like a quick +1-1)

If you go back to outside the right arm you will add 1 twist, which is 2 beats...

this is the +2

if you go outside the left arm you will take off 1 twist, 2 beats

this is the -2

When i turn i just go from in the middle in front of me to middle behind me

But I'd love some help catagorising it all so i can can get it clear in my head and make some good tutorials.

But vicered, i cannot keep a tangle in 1 place as cleanly as you can do it, that's very impressive

So the most stable form i use (the base pattern if you like) is:
+2 [enter on the right]
0 [in the center]
+2 [on the right]
0 [in the center]
-2 [on the left]
0
+2
0
-2
..........etc SO i think this is an "Outside, Inside, Opposite Outside, Inside..." tangle

You can also do:
Enter on the right
+2 [do another loop on the right]
-2
+2
-2
....etc This is an "Outside, Opposite Outside....." tangle

Although, thinking about it where i've said +1 and -1 twists, perhaps that should really be +2 and -2 to count the number of poi heads going past a certain point. Because you can split the tangle by eg letting only 1 poi head go inside, then put the other poi head outside. I've been experimenting with this but it's really hard to change which head is leading and which is following. But i think this is how you turn from forwards to backwards without getting the extra half twist.

Anyway, i'm waffling,

Come on Oli, get your camera out and show us how it's done

m

there's only one weave tangle. but yes there's two.. in the sense that you can enter from either side.. and tangles are even beat moves.. because once you even out the beat count, they go away... I'm not saying you can't offset that forever ala matts video.. but they are pretty much even beat in the sense they work like even beat weaves...

matt's way of looking at it is right.. I mean.. + would be the sid eyou enter on.. and - is the other pole.. and you add and subtract beats based off that.. its +1 per poi...

turns are best done outside.. if you do a a turn with the poi in the 0 you will end up with some fnkyness sometimes.. because of whihc poi leads through the crossover.. its the same way that turning an airwrap on one beat it hols on the other beat it untangles.. when turning on the outside its easier to keep track of your beats..

and oli is right.. the 0 is inverted.. not inside.. inside = opposite outside.. only on the same side.. if you follow that..

but you guys have kicked the shit out of my tangles.. I wish I had that kinda control with tangles.. or twists and knots in this case..,.. can you use that control to take the tangles all over matt? like some of the clips I posted?

What do you mean by 'turning inifites'....

Socks work fine, but they get twisted up right. Well you see in both the videos above how we're kinda pulling away from the nexus of the tangle on every second beat ie every time the leading poi head comes up through your arms (spinning forwards) you bounce it upward (to jump it over the nexus) and you pull outwards with 1 or both hands. This pulling out does 2 things, it speeds the leading poi up (keeping nice split time) and resets the twisted sock poi. Bingo, they now go for ages.

I think +2 0 -2 makes more sense....will change it.

Yes, when it's in between your arms it's inverted,

Rev "inside = opposite outside" Yeah i guess it does but that looks like it makes absoutely no sense.

Oli, " so in theory you can use the inside plane to add or minus twists, but i cant quite do that yet. "

an airwrap in the wall plane goes from outside to inside doesn't it? Or do you mean something else?

Gotta run,

laters

m

try them horiztonal... inside plane is the bottom plane... it makes it easier to visualize..

Would love to see a video jon, it sounds like what i'm trying to crack at the moment.

Turning from the stable 2nd degree tangle forwards to the same in reverse.

The way i do it, the same poi leads in front and behind, so after i turn the tangle has an extra half twist.

To counter this i need to drop a beat when i turn and switch to the other poi leading.

But it's really hard and just loses all it's momentum.

One way around this problem, which i found like 2 days ago, is that you turn on the side that has the double twist, as you do so you swap poi handles, making sure to add half a twist (not take it away), then you carry on with your other hand leading, but it's the same poi

Works perfectly, but i'd rather not go through the hastle of switching.

Any way,

laters,

m

I'll say this again.. can anyone do a a hyperloop from the bottom of a cork to the top.. that's all an inside led hyperloop is..

if you cant crack it by using the corkscrew methos try a windmilll front to back is the same as inside to outside...

if you're still having trouble swinging it easily, try and practice your wallplane hyperloops that enter in the rear plane.. that also is the exact same thing..

finally, one last method involves the normal side to side weave.. take the side plane that spins the same direction as the outer side (when you try and in to out) and make that side like a top... ie.. spin the poi normally like a weave based hyperloop.. but turn your torso a little bit so that you can put your arms parallel.. thus makeing one side plane a top and one a bottom..

this one is different from the others because it uses a different crossover point than the others.. whihc is sometimes helpful for learning, since a lot of times our porblems come from not getting the crossover where we want, and trying too hard to put it there anyway, rather than to try and take it where we can fit.. and work from there..

rev, i try and practise those thinsg but still its hard... one day ill get it though

and matt, i think that codes would be +1 -1 becuase it is the same twist as you get on a normal hyperloop (surely the minimum ammount of twist you can have?). when you add twists t o teh hyperloop though it is +2 -2... where 2 is 360 degrees spin and 1 is 180...

the first airwraps i learnt did not exit on the inside as such, because i do not twist my wrists so that they point towards me during the tangle. however if you twist your wrsits so that they point towards you during the tangle it exits on the inside and stays there.

there is no diffenece in the tangle really... just on the exit the poi can either spin in front of your arm, as normal or in between your arm and body, which is inside. and i have found the latter one quite useful.

edit: i just thought of one difference. try doing an ordinary airwrap with the tangle really close to the poi handles... it dosnt work right? but the one that exits inside will work like this.

IT's late and i'm just off to bed but it makes sense rev

For the first time ever i'm actually getting it, like actually starting to understand it.

More tomorrow,

but 1 thing i'll like to hear about is how the general plane structure that we use, like x,y,z planes gets turned into more of a polar coordinate system when the poi tangle. Or does it just seem that way.

Oli and i were talking about this last year at bristol JC.

hmm, night night,

m

here are a few points tat I think may need some clarifying..

airwrap as an inverted move.. LOTS of people mistake this for a hyperloop because an airwrap can give the illusion of twisting on the outside.. case: imagine you are spinning in the left side plane.. and you are spinning with your torso facing it kinda wallplane... lets say that your right hand goes out as far as the left wrist.. so the inverted space is only as wide as your left hand.. it will appear as if it is tangling outside.. similarly.. when you turn to the right side plane.. your left hand may only go as far out as the right wrist does.. and so it looks as though it exits like a twist.. and then the final nail in the coffin is that there was no crossing (link) involved in the move, so them tanlging at all must imply some kind of twisting.. this latter point being an illsuion of the airwrap.. the leading poi starts as nonlinked.. and begins coiling around the trailing poi string.. but the trailing poi begins already linked.. and it uncoils as it spins through the airwrap.. so every beat that the leading poi coils.. is being uncoiled exactly 180 degrees later by the trailing poi.. whihc is why airwraps never twist up any more or any less..

I have some more to post.. but I'll be damned if the past 3 days of kept me from being able to express it.. one of those fuzzy boundary issues.. it basically deals with why higher degree tangles result in knots.. why knots are not just higher degree tangles.. and such...