Defined ~ Weave

:52

Nah, you can do asymmetric weaves - straight arm weaves for instance aren't symmetrical. And you can do straight arm windmills and I guess corkscrews as well

Also figure of eight only really applies to 2-beat weaves I'd say.

higher beat weave are variations of the base pattern weave.. which is 2bt and is a figure 8... and straight arm weave are also variations of the base pattern weave.. and I assume this refers to the base pattern.. and not every variation.. and the premise is the same in all of these...

dude a 5bt one side is symetricla.. the extra beat from the twist adds 1 beat to the side you wist.. the extra un teisting on the other side adds one beat there...

3bt
R-L-R ~ L-R-L ~ R-L-R

3bt to 4 bt
R-L-R ~ L-R-L-(R) ~ [L]-R-L-R ~L-R-L-(R)

3bt to 5bt
R-L-R ~ L-R-L-(R) ~ [R]-L-R-L-(R) ~ [L]-R-L-R-(L)

the () is the extra twist
the [] is the untwisting of that twist on the other side..

Umm, you want to keep the definition more open than closed i'd say. Don't bother putting in qualifications like "symmetrical hand movement" that aren't fundamentally necessary to the minimum requirements of the poi movement we understand as weave. Then we can talk about variations and stuff.

Otherwise we'll get people saying "thats not a proper weave" when someone does the weave in a slightly different style...
People who say such things should end up spinning 13 beat weave for eternity in the darkest pit of hades :evil:

I RECKON:
it's a bit silly to talk about weave as the hand movement on both sides anyway. Talking about linking halves of the weave makes more sense. It's the way that i notate staff spins and extra staff spins (very similar to multibeat weave moves).

i prefer the division between the halves to not be where the poi change side of the body, but instead when the hands reach their 'neutral position'

Neutral Position (on left hand side): Hands untwisted, right hand vertically above left. vice versa for right hand side obviously.

It suddenly makes things much more intuitive IMHO

Lets look at some of that weave notation again using that different division, so ~ is neutral hand position, not switching body side:

3 beat is exactly the same
R-L-R ~ L-R-L ~ R-L-R

4 beat - now more clearly noted as 5~3~5, which it feels like.
R-L-R-[L]-R) ~ L-R-L ~ R-L-R-[L]-(R)

5 beat
R-L-R-[L]-(R) ~ L-R-L-[R]-(L) ~ R-L-R-[L]-(R)

Another "5 beat" - 7~3~7
R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R) ~ L-R-L ~ R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R)

6 beat - which is 7~5~7
R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R) ~ L-R-L-[R]-(L) ~ R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R)

7 beat
R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R) ~ L-R-L-[R]-[L]-(R)-(L) ~ R-L-R-[L]-[R]-(L)-(R)

ow, my imaginary wrists hurt

i think that definition breaks down the halves of the weave more clearly.
Each side ALWAYS has an odd number of beats and is independent of the other side (ie. The notation for each 'side' begins and ends at the transition point to other moves, unlike the other way of viewing them.)

actually i just put that in to show the weakness in current weave definitions.

Its all defined from the pov of sitting there doing it continuously, rather than going into and out of patterns with variations etc.

i left out one beat weave too, cos thats just silly

see I don't know about that.. because the 4 bt weave is one extra beat on the right that has be untwisted on the left (or vs versus) the 5bt comes in when you add that twist on both sides so that you twist right and untwist lieft and twist left and untwist right... the beats ALWAYS stay symetrical..

now when you do offset weaves... ie. 5bt with a 2 bt, 7bt with a 3bt, etc..
you get into more weave chaos which breeaks down a weave definition... or not.. because an offset weave is simply that an offset one.. in other words you do your beats on one side and then offset it with another.. and can opt to reset or do other things.. see offsetting allows you sto switch between different beat weaves and change up the weave into being not beat dependent.. but does that really break down the weave? I don't think so.. a 5bt weave is a 5bt weave... a 7/3 weave is an offset weave..

although I admit I must be missing something your trying to say because your notation confuses me..

i view weave classifications as being derived from how many beats it creates with one hand. a three beat weave is two beats offside, one beat onside. 5bt is three on, two off. thus, when i add an extra beat onside without slowing down for a fakey, i call it a 4-bt. heres the logic:

two beats offside, one beat on is a three beat hand pattern...
do it with both hands, intermixing the beats... weaving them, if you will, and you get a three beat weave.

thats just how i view it. *shrug*

hmm, but in the 4 beat, neither hand does 4 beats in a complete cycle of the pattern.

One hand does 3 circles, one hand does 5.

Edit - as Rev kindly points out below, this is a load of dingoes kidneys :oops:

my 4-beat is as follows (using rev's convention):

starting on the right, doing one three-beat to situate, and then doing a 4-beat on each side.

R-L ~ R-L-R ~ L-R-R-L ~ R-L-L-R ~ R-L-R

notice theres no crossing of the wrists, but the wrist flick gives it an extra beat. added side effect of using it this way... "four beat weave" is no longer a meaningless term. ;-)

okay, heres how i learned it. way back (a couple months ago) when i was still incompetant with a weave family cross, he showed me that if you flip your wrists around, it pushes your planes out and gives you more room to work with, making you less likely to tangle and strike yourself in the caljones (which, now that i think about it, hasnt happened in a while. now i like to hit myself in the eyeball). i applied that wrist twist at an accellerated rate in a 3-beat and found i could zip a poi around two rotations while the other one does one, and easily return to normal timing... so i did. and when i asked my fire shaman buddy what exactly i was doing, he called it "some sort of weird 4-beat weave". i thought on it for a while, and decided thats a good name for it (for reasons listed above). its fun.

what about them? They are included in glittergirls definition, they chase, cross the body and each other.

But GGs definition seems a bit wide for a definition of weaving, as it takes in simple 2 beat parallel crossovers and lots of other "non-weavey" moves.

i often use 'weave' to describe the family of same direction moves, and 'butterfly' to describe all opposite direction moves.

but i'd say "a weave" and "a butterfly" have different meanings to "weave family" and "butterfly family".

bump#24560982 (patent pending)

I dunno, I prefer

Weave

A move where the poi are travelling in the same direction in split-time between two parallel planes, typically the two wheel planes.

More generally weave is used as an adjective to describe various other moves and variations that share common properties with the basic weave.

I think we should start with the specific definition and afterwards note it's also used as a general term...

But your definition covers almost any poi move I can think of!

And membership of a "family" isn't exclusive... the butterfly weave is part of both the weave and butterfly families IMO, just as the inverted weave is part of the buzzsaw and weave families.

So you agree with my definition then?

Well I was going to argue that you're wrong, but seeing as you agree with me then I'll just pootle off and leave you in peace

I agree with Spiralx

StoneT, yours does make sense when all the facts are gathered but all in all i'm going with spiralx's.