Defined ~ Fountain
Define ~ Fountain
I'd like to hear some definitions for this term, then we'll refine the definition and finally once poiple are agreed we'll add it to the Poidia.
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Defined ~ Fountain
A combination which involves a circle of moves which starts with one cycle on one side of your body then uses a low transition in front of you, one cycle on the opposite side of your body, followed by a high transition in front of you and then you're back to your starting position.
The standard fountain is a wall plane weave forwards, low transition to reverse wall plane weave on the opposite side and then high transition back, the extended fountain adds a windmill in the high transition.
Defined ~ Fountain
Turns are used to change the direction of weave between forwards and backwards. The pattern is then moved backwards and forwards across the body, with poi circling both in front and behind you to keep planes neat (waist wrap.)
A fountain is achieved when the waist wrap is taken out of it's line and moved in a vertical circle.
Defined ~ Fountain
Waist wraps and fountains are different moves though, as the basic waist wrap is a 2-beat move and only involves one transition in front of you. The fountain is 3-beat and involves two transitions...
Defined ~ Fountain
A move where , with feet planted solidly on the ground not moving, you turn from forwards weave to reverse weave, the poi moving about you but only your upper body moving with it. A longer weave can have a windmill planted in the middle when your turning from the weaves
8O A waistewrap isnt a wrap done on the waiste? My bad :oops:
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Fountain
You don't need to turn your upper body to do a fountain
Defined ~ Fountain
*shrugs* I dont turn it but everyone I taught has so I figured thats just how it is done standardly. My bad
I havent really seen any fountain vids, and again, the ones I have seen have people moving the upper bod. My bad again hehe
Defined ~ Fountain
If when you're doing the wall plane weave say fowards on your left side you turn your right hand palm side up when it goes underneath your left armpit you avoid having to stretch so much...
Defined ~ Fountain
Yup yup
Defined ~ Fountain
Never heard of a fountain before.
Defined ~ Fountain
I agree that you don't need the upper body to do a fountain.. the upper body helps accent a fountain.. its an upper fountain.. whereas a lower fountian is something like what is done behind the back..
the basic fountain is known as a 3 circle weave.. i.e. the 3 points it makes, rear left, front middle, rear right..
some peope do a 4-circle fountain when doing an upper fountain.. ie the lower left, upper left, upper right, lower right
Defined ~ Fountain
My understanding was that a fountain was a six circle weave in the wall plane. Then there's lower fountains which are the bottom three circles, and upper fountains which are the top three.
I haven't heard of the 4 circle version before, that I remember.
I seem to recall hearing that this is one of those moves that has a lot of different definitions.
Defined ~ Fountain
Eek, my definitions suck 8O
Defined ~ Fountain
the 6 circle is confusion.. becasue its doubling the only 3 circles...
i.e. you have low left, high middle, and low right.. those are the 3 points..
the low left travels front to back, and the high middle travels back to front, and the low right trvels front to back.. (at least in this example) that makes 3 points, not 6...
the 4 cricle is when you have the low left fron to back and high left from back to front and high right from front to bakc and low right from back to front.. thus making 4 points..
circle weaves count the points where the circles are.. not how many circles there are..
although some people argue the other why which is why hop geave up on trying to teach people 'x' cricle weaves..
Defined ~ Fountain
I've heard people use a definition which counts "points" as well as beats... so your first example is a 3-point 3-beat fountain for instance. Do you think this would make things clearer?
Defined ~ Fountain
well the circles as beats came from people trying to figure out a better way of describing beats..
the 3 circle weave comes from before that discussion... it comes from when looking at a paerrson doing a basica fountain there are 3 circles made...i.e. 3points that you weave to... think about weaving between the points as connecting the dots...
Defined ~ Fountain
Yeah, I think we need the idea of circles/points in the Poidia
Defined ~ Fountain
A combination of weaves in the same plane but done at 3 or more points of the body including at least one forward weave, one backwards weave and one windmill and the transitions between
Any takers?
Defined ~ Fountain
There's no windmill in the basic fountain
Defined ~ Fountain
fountains aren't even 3 point moves...
a buzzsaw fountain only has two points.. the top and bottom.. well left and right.. it crosses top and bttom..
so that boggles things up even more.. I think it would be safe to say that fountains are patterns +1 or more points..
ie. a weave is 2 points.. to make a weave a fountain you make it 3 points.. or more..
a buzzsaw is one point.. to make a buzzsaw fountain its 2 points..
butterfly fountains come from butterfly weaving not butterflies since butterfly is a purely stationary event... so butterfly fountains also start with 3 points.. 2 points from the weave plus 1 or more.
Defined ~ Fountain
Surely the basic fountain has only two points just like the buzzsaw fountain? If you add a windmill that's another point.
Defined ~ Fountain
no.. the basic weave has two points.. the left and the right.. or if wallplaned.. the front and the back.. but the fountain has three the back left, middle front, back right
think of points as being places where you get the beat count of a move..
for a 5btweave fountain.. Iget 5 beats back 5 beats front 5bts back the other side..
a point is only a place where you get thepattern beat count..
Defined ~ Fountain
but its not.. a buzzsaw fountain can be done wall plane.. hell a regular fountain can be done in the single wall plane.. after all you can weave in the single wallplane.. I didn't think about until late last night.. and fountain isn't jsut a weave move.. thus it can't be Oh weave, UH weave or whatever this pinwheel is..
the basic fountain is one of the most well known combos.. but there are lots of fountains.. and they are point moves..
Defined ~ Fountain
I think that's what I said in my first post on this thread
Buzzsaw fountains is what I've always heard them called... Isolated buzzsaw fountains are mmm, lovely
Defined ~ Fountain
need I remind you btb fountains do not come overhead.. the fountain has many variations..
Defined ~ Fountain
[quote="spiralx"]There's no windmill in the basic fountain
Defined ~ Fountain
The vertical movement comes from the fact that it's a low transition from forwards to backwards and then a high transition from backwards to fowards. Since this is all in the wall plane you get a sort of big circle in front of you
Defined ~ Fountain
Defined ~ Fountain
I understand the circle bit.. because of the whole buzzsaw fountain..
however..
I've heard the btb fountian term used a bagillion times.. by people that should know better..which reduced fountainconcept for me to not including the high part.. otherwise btb fountian is a mroe grossly abused term then hyperloop and airwrap ever were..
Defined ~ Fountain
True
Defined ~ Fountain
So can it be two points but sorta half going in between the windmill/backward weave to the forward weave (or vice versa)???
If so then that's cool, clears it up and certainly makes 2 point fountains possible! Could we have found a definition?
A combination of weaves in the same plane but done at 2 or more points (see points) of the body with a vertical difference between them.
Points: A position at which a/some complete poi base pattern(s) can be spherculised temporarily or indefinitely as part of a higher pattern.
Think that sounds well good!
Defined ~ Fountain
Yeh pollenski, I think that def is real good
Defined ~ Fountain
So I think I see the general concept (the whole +1 or more points thing), but could someone please describe a buzzsaw fountain for me? I'm having trouble visualizing one. :oops:
I think once I understand that concept it'll all come together for me.
Defined ~ Fountain
a buzzsaw fountain.. is basically a high and low turn.. thus making a circle.. which can be done straight up front.. or more often pirouetted.. whihc is why I prefer if I do a buzzsaw fountian to just buzzsaw weave.. all you need is a minimum of 1 beat out per side and it works as per normal fountains.
but theres high and low fountains.. a high fountian would be a 3 point weave over the shoulders.. and lower fountain is a 3 point weave in the waist high level.. like one would do btb..
Defined ~ Fountain
Question.
Say your in a buzzsaw and you do it between the legs in front, so your folded in half, and then bend all the way backwards (for the flexie people) and do one basically behind the legs and then back to the front
Is that a buzzsaw fountain as well?? Or just moving a buzzsaw around
Defined ~ Fountain
Well it's not a full circle
Buzzsaw fountain - forwards buzzsaw -> reverse buzzsaw -> forwards buzzsaw, one is a low turn, one is a high turn so it forms a big circle.
Defined ~ Fountain
which would make it lower fountain kinda like the btb weave version...
and a buzzsaw fountain cna bedone without the turn by just going high change over and then low changeover when doing the buzzsaw to the left and right sides..
Defined ~ Fountain
Oh, ok thanks for clearing that up
Defined ~ Fountain
I'm going to use cyan as blue is a bit hard to see on the new boards!
Fountain
A series of moves where the centre of rotation travels around a large circle until it reaches its starting point. Unlike a flower the centre of rotation is typically at the hands.
Any objections? (He says waiting for a dozen
) Not 100% sure on the second sentance - it's true for all of the non-isolated fountains I can think of. And I've taken out references to direction change as I think they're secondary to the idea of doing moves within a bigger circle.
Defined ~ Fountain
I might have already said this but I dont remember.
Why does a fountain have to go in a full circle? I've always heard a standard fountain referred to as , for example, take the weave.
Spinner facing wall plane>> Forwards weave on right side, in wall plane so I guess its a clockwise weave>> without moving feet so your just moving the strings, it goes infront of the body and over to the left side in reverse weave, from outside looks like they go same direction but obviously relative to spinner it changes>> btw, not doing like abunch of weaves on each side just enough to have it change.>>goes back to right side etc etc
And the one where it goes up, >>weave on one side>>windmill>>weave on other side , was merely another variation of a fountain , lovingly referred to by myself and my sisters as Waterfall (yeh yeh I know it's not a real name but what are we sposed to do when calling it out "low fountain, high fountain..booorinng)
Anyways my point is, I dont believe a fountain has to go in a full circle. I see a standard fountain as moving something from side to side through the wall plane and spinning a few loops behind you on a certain side and coming back to the other without changing the feet.
Defined ~ Fountain
I refer you to this...
http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/lesson18.pdf
Which defines half and full fountains
Defined ~ Fountain
it says I have to have a master password??? 8O
Defined ~ Fountain
Odd, it doesn't on mine... try going to here and then clicking on the link for lesson 18:
http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/contents.htm
Defined ~ Fountain
Nope still says needs master password. Could you copy down the text and post it for me? Or email me or pm me or some such thing??
Defined ~ Fountain
Sent to the hotmail address in your profile
Defined ~ Fountain
Poikid, I can't remember who gave me this advice, but... don't go chasing waterfalls, please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to.
Defined ~ Fountain
Whats the point of living if you dont experience it to the fullest orbit? If I stick to the little river that flows through this sleepy old town , I would exist. not live.
[does not see what that advice has to do with the fountain discussion but oh well]
Defined ~ Fountain
Thanks spiralx I got the image
Now to debate.
I am not saying this source is wrong, however, when coming from one source why is it accepted as the correct one. Goodness knows none of you ever accepted gg with her views as she was only one source... might I ask why it is the opposite with this?
I agree it makes more sense to have it that way, but then some of gg's stuff makes more sense than what actually exists so all in all...
I say this. I am not going to take from one source a complete fact. From the view I'm sitting in ,that seems more a personal opinion (as is mine which is why I'm opening it up for debate to see what is the known standard) than a fact
Looking forward to learning more
-Poikid-
Defined ~ Fountain
Because that's the definition I was taught, club swingers have used for almost a hundred years, Michal Kahn's book uses etc. etc.
Besides, it's the same as what you're describing anyway, I'm not sure what your issue with it is...
Defined ~ Fountain
Lol, looking back on that I'm a bit suprised at myself
I was really ticked off that day. Not about this. About some things happening in my current life. Sorry that it ended up coming through the post. I have no problem with that definition.
Defined ~ Fountain
So... any arguments?
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