Defined ~ In Time

When poi are in phase eg. chase the sun, reels, mexican waves.

We should point out that you can have two poi be in time when they're spinning opposite directions. As long as they reach the top of their circles at the same time (let's say you're spinning in side plane) they're still in time.

In time is when the poi spin at the same time (ie both at top or both at bottom.)

You're right, Rev. It does depend on the plane. Could make it harder to illustrate in words, though. How do you tell someone where the top of a horizontal circle is?

I think that leaves room for misinterpretation. The best I can come up with now is saying that the poi are in sync/phase/whatever and using two circles in the side plane as an example, then metioning that poi can be in time while going opposite directions (can use side plane as an example again) and/or when in different planes (front and wall plane would be an easy example to write, but doesn't escape the whole top/bottom thing).

Rev's example actually works well for defining a horizontal top and bottom, except that I don't think it's universally understandable. People new to poi certainly won't understand it, and they'd probably be joined by a fair number of poiple.

Hm...I think I'm going with spiralx on this one...

M-P Kid

Well I would think of a horizontal butterfly just as a regular one. I mean, I dont think the butterfly changes but rather where you put it, so why would you have to redescribe a same time horizontal butterfly? If the spinner were to look up while doing them it would be just the same wouldnt it?

-poikid-

All right, I think I've got this now. It's a bit more detailed than spiralx's, but that's just because this one specifically addresses things that were implied.

Spinning in time is spinning the poi in sync. That is, the poi will each reach the tops and bottoms of their circles at the same time, regardless of what plane or direction they are spinning in.
For example, if you spin both poi at your sides, they will both reach the top at the same time.
If the poi are spinning horizontally, the points furthest away from you and closest to you are the top and the bottom of the circle.

the only reason I wanted to point out what I did was because spinning a butterfly with them crossing on the right and left sides at the same time is different from top and bottom.. and whatnot.. that was all.. more confusing myself then anything else.. i think we've pretty much got it though..

I agree... changing orientation doesn't affect the timing of the poi at all.

Sounds good

Wait wait, breakthrough. Do you mean that split time bf would be when the poi meet each other on the -sides- of the circles vs the top? If so then yes, turning 90 degrees would make it split time if not changing anything brought the butterfly down.....woooord.... is that what you were talking about Matt?

-Poikid-

a split time butterfly is a butterfly where the poi ross at the left and right... think a sideways normal butterfly.. this allows the poi to cross one at the top and the other at the bottom like nromal splittime stuff...

there was a long article on this in hop.. from like way before I started spinning.. but yeah by thinking of a splittime butterfly as a sideways butterfly it makes it easier to work through the motions.. there's another trick t it that I'm forgetting.. something that doesn't come up until you start doing higher beat TTN stuff.. but I'm at a loss at the moment.. its been a long time since I worked on the technical side of split time...

ok.. I just thought I might havecaught what matt was saying... what happens if I do a butterfly directly over head? when is it same time... and if I turn my body but keep my hands and the butterfly the same.. you know.. how do I tell.. because the center is over me... I can do a sideways a reverse and a forwardbutterfly over head and its really hardto tell you know.. I dunno.. Imight just be adding confusion...

In-time

Spinning in time is spinning the poi in sync. That is, the poi will each reach the tops and bottoms of their circles at the same time, regardless of what plane or direction they are spinning in. For example, if you spin both poi at your sides, they will both reach the top at the same time or if you spin. If the poi are spinning horizontally, the points furthest away from you and closest to you are the top and the bottom of the circle.

Erm no criticism here as that fits all I've known about, but a further definition might be needed for in time for some patterns:

I think it's a hip reel I'm using as an example here, but unsure - it came to my attention from the 'mindfuck' topic in the weave forum.

Anyway the move begins with both poi spinning in the wall plane (front+back) clockwise in time and alternate between spinning in front and spinning behind. This describes two different patterns as explained below:

The first is where one poi starts in front of the body and the other starts behind and they switch alternately.

The second is where both poi start in front and move together from front to back and back to front.

Both moves are in time but the second one is in phase as well and so I put forward the term 'phase' for the encyclopoidia. Witht the second situation having the poi 'in phase' and in the first situation they are out of phase.

The maths (or maybe physics...meh!) behind this situation suggests that every move that is 2bt or more should therefore have the same problems with terminology except for ones which have already been given individual names.

Another example would be 2 bt weave . It can be in phase with both poi travelling together, split-timed so one or the other poi is 90 degrees out of phase (by wave theory, but which looks like 180 degrees visually), or they can be 180 degrees out of phase where the poi heads are opposite sides of the body and switch back and forwards but in time.

Also I can't think of one now, but I'm sure there wll be a pattern where the poi can be in time in 3 or more possibilities, these should require a move where each poi completes 3 full circles before returning back to it's starting point, not sure if a 3bt weave would work as trying to spin it in time just messed with my head!

kewl, what about the antiphase ones? Also are there any cases of patterns where they can be in time in 3 different ways? Maybe 3 leafed flowers could?

Umm thought here..brain a wee bit fried feeling but a thought none the less.

Are you suggesting, pollenski, that because they are in two differant planes that makes them no longer in time? If so I disagree %100 and that is certainly how I understood your post

How the poi are in relation to each other with no body is what I think defines in time. But just because ones behind you doesnt change timing

Oh , my bad

Hey pollenski

First off, the hop description didnt come up

So this wasnt actually about timing but rather the positioning of the poi?

This is what I -think- I understood

In a standard butterfly, over the head or not the poi travel parelell (forgive spelling, late at night) to each other being in the exact same plane with each pass vs a mexican wave as I understood it to be each hand doing an overthehead bfly on at a time, does not travel parallel (beter??) with each other because though the same basic pattern (bfly) and exact timing the fact that they are not in constant same plane with each other???

Again this is late at night so bear with me here If so thanks for clearing me up there pollenski

Catch ya later

-Poikid-

Pollenski

I get what your saying man yay Interesting I never considered phase before. So I read that thread on parallel weaves over in the weave section (duh lol) and didnt get it at first, this is clearing it up tremendously. Not only that... I just got some wicked ideas for poi.........mmmmmmm..........

BOT

So are we going with Spiralx's? I agree with it for -timing- , the phase should have a discussion all its own

-Poikid-

Seems like there aren't any objections...