Defined ~ Wrap
Define ~ Wrap
I'd like to hear some definitions for this term, then we'll refine the definition and finally once poiple are agreed we'll add it to the Poidia.
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Defined ~ Wrap
A wrap is when part of the body is used to alter the movement of a poi. There are two kinds - recoil wraps where the poi wraps and recoils off and so ends up going in the opposite direction, and through wraps where the poi wraps around and then the body part moves causing the poi to unwrap still going in the same direction.
Defined ~ Wrap
And what about bounce wraps and tracers?
Bounces and tap backs also seem to fit the discription of altering the direction of the poi using a body part.
Defined ~ Wrap
Well, for a general definition:
Wraps are a family of moves where the chain/string wraps around a part of the body. They're really useful for changing the direction of the poi.
Defined ~ Wrap
Wrap would mean (as I see it) , where the poi string wraps around a body part. What you do WITH the wrap however, I think deserves a category of its own , since theres bounce wraps, recoil , tracers, swingies, but general wrap would be yes...just the string wrapping around a body part.
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Wrap
That sounds right.
Defined ~ Wrap
Wraps are a big family of moves. For one thing there are many types of wraps, and for another there are so many places to do them and variations and whatnot.
Do we even want to think about including airwraps/hyperloops with other wraps? Since they are a type of wrapping, technically.
Defined ~ Wrap
Hmm... yes they are a type of wrapping.... but is it something that people consider wraps?
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Wrap
[quote="Raven7421"]Do we even want to think about including airwraps/hyperloops with other wraps? Since they are a type of wrapping, technically.
Defined ~ Wrap
Yah....
Defined ~ Wrap
A Wrap is where the poi wraps around a part of your body. There are different types of wraps. Trace wrap, recoil wrap, and bounce wrap.
Defined ~ Wrap
no.. traces aren't wraps.. traces are done primarily from wraps but aren't wraps themselves..
there are bounce wraps are like tap backs.. they are classified with wraps, like traces, but aren't really wraps themselves.. they merely hit a point near the poi head..
wraps involve recoils.. a regular wrap will wrap around a body part and recoils back in opposite direction.. a through-wrap, wraps but recoils in the same direction....
I think bounces and traces should be linked/listed with the wraps, but aren't really wraps.. don't let bounce wrap fool you.. airwraps aren't wraps either.. lol
Defined ~ Wrap
Again Rev...everyones got dif opinions...
As for bounce wraps... it still wraps around a body part, whether its a recoil or not it still wraps. To me it's sorta like dif beat weaves... they're differant but the base pattern is the same...........atleast in my opinion. This poidia is so gonna be good.......so that everyone on Spherculism will know what Spherculism terms mean......too awesome man.....
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Wrap
I agree with everyone that airwraps/hyperloops should be separate from wraps.
But I still think that they are wraps, just with the strings instead of a body part. Kind of a special case family in the wrapping world, that can be treated separately.
Also, I'd agree that traces themselves don't have to be wraps. I haven't really explored them much, but it seems to me that the trace and the wrap aren't the same thing.
Seems like one of those things that could be easy to interpret either way.
Defined ~ Wrap
[quote="Raven7421"]I agree with everyone that airwraps/hyperloops should be separate from wraps.
But I still think that they are wraps, just with the strings instead of a body part. Kind of a special case family in the wrapping world, that can be treated separately.
Defined ~ Wrap
Hehe ok all :2 :42 :28
Defined ~ Wrap
How about:
A wrap is when part of the body is used to redirect the motion of the poi.
Defined ~ Wrap
Woot woot I think that'll work spiralx
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Wrap
[quote="poikid"]Again Rev...everyones got dif opinions...
As for bounce wraps... it still wraps around a body part, whether its a recoil or not it still wraps. To me it's sorta like dif beat weaves... they're differant but the base pattern is the same...........atleast in my opinion. This poidia is so gonna be good.......so that everyone on Spherculism will know what Spherculism terms mean......too awesome man.....
M-P Kid
Defined ~ Wrap
Wrap
A wrap is when part of the body is used to redirect the motion of the poi.
Defined ~ Wrap
I don't think this has been argued in a while either but let me bump to be sure
Defined ~ Wrap
I apologize.
Spiralx. I like yours.
Defined ~ Wrap
lol kiddo... forget that.. its in the past.. I was just bumpingthis because if their is no further argument it can be knockedout instead of sitting stale
Defined ~ Wrap
Wouldn't this definition cover bounces, not just wraps? Since all you're saying is that a body part is used, and not how it's used. So anything you do with your body that changes the motion of the poi is a wrap by this definition.
How about this:
A wrap is when you wrap the body of the poi around a part of your body to redirect the motion of the poi.
Defined ~ Wrap
Never thought of that raven. True
So if we are going to cover both then Spiralx. If not, then Ravens
Defined ~ Wrap
how about determing bounce and wrap as different but possible to combine? a bounce wrap is where the poi head wraps a little but contacts the limb, in a recoil wrap the poi is pulled back before contact is made in a thru wrap the limb is moved before the poi changes direction of spin (relative to the point of rotation) and a wrap is as defined above although i'd say twists in the string are a subset of wraps as in other wraps we define the point of contact, for a string wrap we call it a twist/tangle/i've forgotten what was decided after all that! and so should be
A wrap is when you wrap the string of the poi around anything (including limbs, the other poi, static furniture, other people, etc) to redirect the motion of the poi.
Also see: bounce wrap (bounce), through wrap, tangles
A bounce is where the poi head strikes anything (including limbs, the other poi, static furniture, other people, etc) to redirect the motion of the poi.
Also see: bounce wrap (wrap)
Opening a new avenue of poi, using nearby objects for recoils and bounces, maybe glowstringers in clubs using walls/bannisters? Outside usin walls/floors/lampposts? (disclaimer: don't break the law and damage stuff!)
Defined ~ Wrap
I think wrap is fine for redirecting the poi off of -something- to later be clarified in terms of bounce, recoil, and thru
Defined ~ Wrap
[quote="pollenski"]how about determing bounce and wrap as different but possible to combine? a bounce wrap is where the poi head wraps a little but contacts the limb
Defined ~ Wrap
yes but boucning isnt wrapping.. especially when the poi hits and goes back the other way..
it helps to avoid confusion like that bastard term airwrap..
which is neither air nor wrap..
and another point is a trace is more of a wrap then a bounce wrap is and traces dont change direction..
Defined ~ Wrap
Why isn't a bounce a wrap? I very rarely do wraps where there's much wrapping going on, but it's just a matter of degree, not anything fundamentally different.
It would be different if it was a slapback or a kick or something because then you'd be putting power into it, but even then I wouldn't say it's really different in any significant way.
This "bounce wrap" is just a recoil wrap where it's at the head. If I move it half an inch down the chain then it's suddenly called something different?
Defined ~ Wrap
Ok I know way too little about these things.
Ya'll have brought out some stuff I've never even considered so, to avoid spreading disorder and chaos I'd better not comment
Good luck ya'll on getting these settled.
Oh, quickie...I dont think tangles should be put in wraps.
Defined ~ Wrap
Bounces DON'T have to be wraps and wraps DON'T have to be bounces... as for difference between a bounce wrap and a recoil wrap, how about if it wraps round your left arm BUT bounces off your right?!? In this way a recoil wrap is not the same as a bounce wrap and yet the two can combine...
I always took recoil wraps to be where you pull on the string to reverse the direction whilst it was still wrapping, bounce wraps for when the motion is changed by....bouncing, through wraps for where there is no change of spin direction (relative to the hand) and erm....
Also tangles are a case of a double wrap where both poi are wrapping round each others strings simultaneously. Overall I think wrap is a very broad term which can and should encompass all of these ideas as not to would be to restrict ourselves in exploring new avenues of poi-dom!
Wrap:
Any move in which the poi string is 'wrapped' around something.
Whether the direction of motion is changed or not will depend on which type of wrap is used and how it's used!
Defined ~ Wrap
I hardly ever pull on the string when wrapping... but the only difference if you do is that you're speeding up the poi when it comes out. And a wrap will always change the motion of the poi, even if it doesn't change the direction of spin, hence direction not being mentioned in the definition.
Defined ~ Wrap
spiralx: what about a wrap release? the poi's in the same plane and won't gain any energy so if it's caught from where it was released then the total energy of the poi hasn't changed (except frictional losses which could be negligible) and the poi's travelling along the same path, voila a wrap with no directional change. OK, the direction was changed during the move but the start and end motions are equal.
Meh, the motion change can be negligible due to the wrap and can be more attributable to a bounce/recoil effect instead...
Any move in which the poi string is 'wrapped' around something.
Defined ~ Wrap
now you guys are confusing me.. because the onyl thing that makes a boucne wrap not a wrap is the type of poi head.. because you can't boucen wrap with a big heavy ball on the end (aerotechs, monkey fists, etc.. ) you have to, depnding on the size and shape of the poi head, boounce right off the arm in the case of a gloswstick or near the arm but more where then chain/string meets the poi (aerotechs, or even astrojacks work this way).. so a boucne wrap is a wrap.. but the poi head makes a difference because to maximize the bounce you have to line up well with the poi head.. and in some cases this sweetspot is where the chain meets and not on the poi head.. that's why boucne wraps are wraps.. and not jsut a kick where soemone kicks the poi.. you can kick the head of a poi regardless of what it is and do not have to kick near the string..
the recoil wraps can recoil out oppostie dirction (recoil wrap) or be pulled out same direction (trace).. now the thing is though the wrap changes the direction of the poi.. you never wrap and come out going the same way unless you trace.. and tracing is different fromwrapping.. you can trace without a wrap.. its like a wrap throw or wrap release where you do one then the other.. just having the term wrap doesnt mean it WILL change direction because outer things like the throw/release/trace/etc can affect it and thus make it not change direction but if you WRAP and only WRAP.. it will change direction.. the only thing that doesnt follow this is a thru wrap.. and thruwraps are half wraps that are carried to another side.. thruwraps only wrap by ahlf.. meaning .5, 1.5, 2.5 etc.. which is why half-wrap/thruwrap are synonomous with each other.. its also why they are called thru wraps because its a wrap taking thru to the other side.. all of these prefexes and suffixes -I- (doesnt mean I'm right, but I) think give the different connotation to the wrap...
you can wrap with a tangle in many different ways.. BUT those wraps follow these wrap properties.. airwraps... mot of them work liek thruwraps though some actually work as recoil wraps..
now.. if we want to leave directin out and go with motion.. I can see that and wont argue.. but I really think its the variatiosn that make the wrap not change direction not the wrap itself..
Defined ~ Wrap
but surely the term wrap should be incorporating all of these ideas with the distinction made from the prefixes or suffixes? To say a through wrap isn't a wrap is well...wrong? It's a type of wrap and so should be incorporated in the term wrap, as it's a very broad spectrum of moves and so should be a broadly defined term! It can include (not exclusively):
Wraps off body, wraps off other strings (arguable), wraps off non-spinner objects, bounce-wraps, through-wraps, recoil-wraps and though I've yet to see it maybe some clever dick'll do a bellend wrap, who knows... it's a very broad term and i think that the definition i posted earlier reflects that!
Defined ~ Wrap
I do include stuff like wraps on strings and what not.. though that's not what i see and airwrap as.. or tanlges for that matter.. the reason being.. and I'm not saying this to be a prick.. but I could sit here and list why every family of moves is the same as the other with only a minor difference (like the change direction doesnt change direction.. )
pw- same direction butterfly
same direction ttn- single plane weave
buzzsaw weave and regualr weave- twist and tangles...
straight jackets and knots..
and so forth and so on.. everything is utterfly the same minus a few seemingly insignificant details like changing direciton or not..
which is why I think wrap.. as far the term wrap goes.. implies direction change.. as weave implies same direction... though butterfly weave implies opposite direction because of the prefix.. jsut like thru-wrap implie non direction change through prefix.. etc...
the pre-fixes and suffixes don't redeifne the family but rather differentiate that term and makes a thruwrap not the same as a wrap.. and so forth.. doesnt mean its not part of that classification ie wraps.. just means that the prefix (suffix in other cases..) allows you to know what makes that differnt fomr the basic wrap.
Defined ~ Wrap
surely the thing that defines a wrap is the fact it wraps around something (as it's the name and all!) Direction change happens to be a feature of a lot of wraps but because a through wrap doesn't change direction does that mean it's not a wrap? The string still wraps around a part of the body exactly the same as any other wrap!
Defined ~ Wrap
Do we mean direction change as in going from fwd -> rev, or just direction change as in ending up moving somewhere different than it was before the wrap? Although either way is wrong IMO.
How about a variation on raven's definition
A wrap is when you wrap the body of the poi around a part of your body to alter the motion of the poi.
This covers recoil wraps, through wraps, wraps where you let go and catch and anything else really... all of these "alter the motion" of the poi in some way or another, even if they don't change it's path.
Wraps on strings aren't wraps, it's just confusing to try and include them in this category.
Defined ~ Wrap
spiral I was thinking of a string wrap when you spiral it down and then it spirals back out the other direction.. I mean.. its a wrap using strings.. but mainly I was referring to link wraps..
but that's fine by me..
Defined ~ Wrap
surely a wrap doesn't have to be around a part of the body tho? they can be off of inanimate objects or other people also (ask permission first
)
Defined ~ Wrap
That's surely a variation rather than the basic definition though? Otherwise we're left with something like "anything where the poi touches something" 8O
Defined ~ Wrap
see this is what i'm thinking, it can't be a definition if there's a variation which isn't defined by it.... yes/no? maybe i'm just being pedantic.
IMHO I think all variants should be covered under the definition but if other's work in other ways I'm fighting a losing battle :roll:
But essentially that's what I've been saying since the beginning i think i've just phrased myself better there! That's the same reason I dislike the direction changing stuff cuz supposedly there's an instance of a through wrap where the poi motion would stay constant....it would involve isolating the thru bit by rotating your whole body around the wrap i think....
would this not be a hypothetical wrap just because there was no motion change? I think it would!
Defined ~ Wrap
[quote="pollenski"]see this is what i'm thinking, it can't be a definition if there's a variation which isn't defined by it.... yes/no? maybe i'm just being pedantic.
Defined ~ Wrap
especailly since your hands only cross follow.. they don't 'weave' until higher beats...
and in that same respect.. a twist (outside tangle) and a thruwrap are also the same thing.. so I mean we ahve to reach a point where we say this is necessary for the basic definition and everything else are variations.. which is why I said a wrap changes direction but the variations may or may not..
Defined ~ Wrap
but that's completely illogical.... you're saying a variant of a wrap is no longer a wrap! Imagine one of those diagrams from math class where you have circles representing groups... think the name began with a v, with wraps as a big circle, surely all variants of wraps would then be inside that circle? And so the description of that main group should incorporate ALL of the sub groups... Pedanticism...pah I was giving in easy, I've got logic and a whole subset of mathematics (bear in mind the motion of poi is governed by physics and so subject to the rules of math) on my side
And so I say again
Wrap: Any move in which the poi string is 'wrapped' around something.
Bring it, am feelin argumentative...
Defined ~ Wrap
*bump* Any arguments? Although we should change "string" to "body" to match our other definitions...
Defined ~ Wrap
Works for me.
Defined ~ Wrap
No arguements
Yesh, body, not string. Other then that nothing
Defined ~ Wrap
Cool
Defined ~ Wrap
Quick - post it while Rev's not looking