Defined ~ Stall

Define ~ Stall

I'd like to hear some definitions for this term, then we'll refine the definition and finally once poiple are agreed we'll add it to the Poidia.

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Encyclopoidia Omnimodus

Comments

MAR
8
2004
spiralx

A stall is where the motion of a poi is stopped and then reversed so that you end up going in the opposite direction. For instance from spinning inwards you let the head of the poi hang down to the ground and then pull it back again so you are now spinning outwards.

MAR
8
2004
Achluophobia

I don't like the part about having to change direction. I don't always change direction direction after stalls.

MAR
8
2004
spiralx

[quote="Achluophobia"]I don't like the part about having to change direction. I don't always change direction direction after stalls.

MAR
8
2004
Achluophobia

Works for me.

MAR
10
2004
Muppet

A Stall is when the poi are spinning one way then you stall it on a part of your body to stop the poi and change the direction of the poi. So now it's going the opisite way.

MAR
11
2004
spiralx

[quote="Muppet"]A Stall is when the poi are spinning one way then you stall it on a part of your body to stop the poi and change the direction of the poi. So now it's going the opisite way.

MAR
11
2004
Rev

a stall can be done in air or on body..

a stall is when the poi gets 100% potential energy and 0% kinetic.. or something to that effect... I haven't been in science class in a while..

this means the poi comes to a complete stop... now.. for a body stall the poi must land on the body part (not wrap) and stay motionless... for instance I can bring the poi up to rest on my shoulder, turn or what ever and then bring thepoi back into motion.. when using body stalls, I ussually stop one poi and swing the other then bring it to rest as the previously stalled poi starts moving.. this get some interesting effects especially if you stall the poi in a place that can't be seen..

MAR
11
2004
Achluophobia

What Rev is staying sounds right here. I never though about body stalls before.

MAR
11
2004
Rev

I think of it like this..

wraps stalls are different from regular stalls because they stall mid wrap.. in other words they stall before a recoil... regular bounces are when you stall a move and thus just the poi head..

a lot of times when I do a body stall, I still move my arms around you know..

and the only thing that all stalls have in common is the pause where there's only potential energy...

APR
27
2004
Rev

Define Stall-
A stall is when you bring the poi to a complete rest (100% potential energy). The poi may stop either in the air or on the body.

any other suggestions?

APR
27
2004
poikid

Sounds good here Rev Sphism/smilesmiley

APR
27
2004
simian

ok, i do agree with the definition. But think that other stuff should be mentioned as qualifiers to the definition.

100% potential energy? if its just dangling? hmm. if you say so...

i don't see any need for anything more than

"A stall is when you bring one poi to a complete rest. The poi may stop either in the air or on the body."

(cos two is a double stall)

and i reckon it should be noted that Stall usually implies a change of direction, unless otherwise stated (even though i do stalls that don't change direction, i see them as exceptions to the rule).

also that you will usually add a qualifier when you mention a stall, depending on it's angle at rest.

i currentlly use:
Vertical stall - points down
Inverted stall - points up
Horizontal stall - points left or right

but maybe an 8 point (compass points) analogy would be better. Something like...

North stall: points up
South stall: points down
East stall: points right
West stall: points left

which'd give you the diagonals too, with Northwest etc...

(better than the clockface analogy IMHO, because people generally use an eight point structure for flowerslockouts etc... more than a 12 point structure.)

APR
27
2004
spiralx

Stall-
A stall is when you bring one poi to a complete rest. The poi may stop either in the air or on the body.

I agree with simian, this is plenty enough.

APR
27
2004
poikid

Simian, that has made me understand stalls even more now hehe! Yah perhaps we should do like , type in stall, brings up that definition, then it could say something similar to 'see more on stalls' and bring up something like what you just put in , for those wanting to know more intimate details, or should they just go to the forums for that? That would be one way to get more people into the forums eh?

APR
28
2004
Achluophobia

I like that definition.

APR
28
2004
BHBTBZS

Quote:
Stall-
A stall is when you bring one poi to a complete rest. The poi may stop either in the air or on the body.

So a recoil wrap would be a stall ?!? Hmmmm . . . .

APR
28
2004
simian

well kinda...

Technically a recoil wrap (if performed cleanly) will stall, but only for a very short moment.

It's a stall where you use an obstacle to make the poi lose + gain momentum, rather than controlling the momentum through movement of the centre of rotation.

So yes, IMO a recoil wrap is a stall. But i wouldn't look at someone doing a recoil wrap and say "nice stall!" because that would be confusing.

APR
28
2004
matt

Stall-
A stall is when you bring one poi to a complete rest. The poi may stop either in the air or rest lightly against the body. (Where lightly is taken to mean that there is no force acting on the body part)

A recoil wrap is stopped NOT stalled.

¦m¦

APR
28
2004
BHBTBZS

Still cannot agree with this resting thing...
Otherwise a swinging Poi would be a multiple Stall.

Stalls take the energy from the Poi and make them stopping faster than normal - using an isolated hand movement.

APR
28
2004
matt

Stalls:

A Stall is a means of removing All rotational energy from the poi by use of a hand motion similar to isolations.

Rest Stall:

A Rest Stall differs from a stall by coming to rest lightly against a body part. This body part is used for aethetics purposes only and is not used to stop the poi.

APR
28
2004
poikid

I think that ones good... though I'm not terribly good at stalls it sounds right to me Sphism/confusedsmiley

APR
28
2004
spiralx

[quote="BHBTBZS"]Still cannot agree with this resting thing...
Otherwise a swinging Poi would be a multiple Stall.

Stalls take the energy from the Poi and make them stopping faster than normal - using an isolated hand movement.

APR
28
2004
simian

howabout:
a stall is a means of removing all rotational energy from the poi through manipulation of the centre of rotation.

i still think a recoiul wrap stalls, even if it isn't A stall. So there Sphism/tonguesmileySphism/winksmiley

APR
28
2004
Rev

ok .. I put 100% potewntial because that's what you get.. whether in the air (mid air, pointing up pointing down) its 100% potentizal which means its staitc.. its not moving and then it startsmoving agfain..

there is no difference between an air stall and a body stall...
recoil wraps CAN stall.. recoil wraps dont' stall.. they hit and bouce back even when completely wrapped around handle to poi head.. they still hit and bounce the other way starting the recoil.. wraps CAN stall in the event that you stall a wrap, you are doing a body stall.. which is using your body to hold the poi at 100% potential..

pperhaps I'm missing something.. where's the confusion in all thsi..

APR
28
2004
spiralx

I have no idea where the confusion comes from either *shrug* Let's try

Stall

A stall is a means of removing all motion from the poi through manipulation of the centre of rotation.

APR
28
2004
matt

sounds good to me.

(problem is rev that not every poi spinner knows physics nor should you need to to understand the poidia)

¦m¦

APR
28
2004
spiralx

I agree. Removing all motion is the same as converting to 100% potential energy anyway Sphism/smilesmiley

APR
28
2004
Rev

I was just using that as an illustration of the what it means when I say stops.. because some people refer to what happens in a wrap as a stop/stall.. and its not.. unless made that way..

I didn't mean for it to be necessary in the definition.. (<- in these as a point of clarification-&gtSphism/winksmiley

APR
28
2004
poikid

Yeh I'm good with that last one

APR
29
2004
simian

[quote="Rev"]I was just using that as an illustration of the what it means when I say stops.. because some people refer to what happens in a wrap as a stop/stall.. and its not.. unless made that way..

APR
29
2004
matt

I believe a stall implies that there is NO external force stopping the poi. By that i mean that you have to remove the energy from it along its length only and not by stopping it with a sideways force, like a recoil wrap. However, you can stall the last bit of a recoil wrap but i would suggest that the recoil wrap is the description of wraping around your body part and changing the direction. HOW the direction changes can either be a stall or a bounce but that doesn't mean the reacoil wrap is a stall.

Right, i think we're all saying the same thing in different ways so i'll be quiet Sphism/winksmiley

¦m¦

APR
29
2004
Rev

the reason I say recoil wraps can stall, but usaully don't.. is because I don't consider.. a nanosecond as a stall.. I mean when you do a recoil wrap, the wrap get faster as it coils, which makes the instant between full force -> 0 -> full force, blindingly fast.. I mean honestly.. even when I do an upwards stall it lingers there for a significant amount of time for one to realize that there was a stall without resorting to slow motion cameras, or mathematical precision beyond the first two decimalplaces.. you know..

by example.. when I body stall, my poi comes to a complete rest.. and stays that way.. when I wrap.. it only rests at the instant of impact by means of having to pass 0 in its journey from 10 to -10 velocity...

which puts us arguing semantics..something we are very fond of here. but by this point is it really necessary? Sphism/gigglesmiley

APR
30
2004
simian

This forum is purely for the purpose of arguing semantics, innit?

The point of nanosecond (or shorter) as a stall is exactly what i meant. It might seem overly fussy to point things like that out, but i think it has greater implications for working things out and spotting patternsdiscovering possibilities. Having said that, i do appreciate the case for pragmatic simplification of concepts.

APR
30
2004
matt

Hold on.

Are you saying that the poi stall if you bounce it off your arm??? That's a STOP not a STALL. IMO. Because you are STOPPING IT manually instead of adjusting the CofG and Stalling it.

However you can stall your poi after it has wrapped around your arm a few times, is this what you're talking about??? If so then i kinda agree but would assume this to be 2 separate patterns.

¦m¦

APR
30
2004
simian

i'm saying that the word stall has a meaning beyond the poi move that you call a "Stall".

a recoil wrap stalls, but isn't A stall. savvy?

stalled poi share common attributes that non-stalled poi don't have, and thats whether stalled with a Stall or with a stop on the body (ie. the instant of zero momentum during a recoil wrap).

so i was objecting to the statement that recoil wraps don't stall, when they clearly do.

i don't understand your objection to what i've said at all... Sphism/confusedsmiley:

APR
30
2004
poikid

Hmm

Well my opinion on it is that a stall is where the poi HEAD never touches the body, and indeed other things do stall but they aren't Stalls, because I guess technically you could call one of those recoil wraps a stall instead of a stop when I think they are stops, and I dont think they should be called Stalls at all. Just stops. As for the stalls I just tried this thing yesterday where you start to do a really long recoil wrap but before it wraps even once you stall it out to the side...is this what some of you are meaning? If so then I dont see it as a recoil wrap because it never actually wraps. I may be confused tho

APR
30
2004
matt

Simian: sorry mate, didn't mean to SHOUT.

I think you use the term stall when I use the term stop.

I say stop when i put something in the way of the poi head which stops it. Like an arm or a leg, or the floor or a wall, or my face Sphism/winksmiley

I say stall when I cease the rotation without needing to put something in the way, i.e by manipulating the center of gravity.

I totally agree that if you change the direction of the poi then there is a split second where the velocity is zero ~ which i think is your point right?

All i'm saying is that during a recoil wrap I usually bounce the poi head off my arm, which i would call a Stop.

However if i do a recoil wrap and then just before it touches my arm i manipulate the center of gravity so that it Stalls without using my arm to bounce it off then i think this is what your point is about, right???

So can someone just say if they argee on using the terms 'Stall and Stop' in the way mentioned above....

Or am i on my own with this distinction?

¦m¦

APR
30
2004
poikid

Matt

Thats how I've understood them, the way you stated in your last post.

AUG
19
2004
spiralx

So are we agreed that stalls don't involve wraps of any kind, just centre of gravity manipulations?

One thing to note is that the poi spinning book calls them stops, and I've always heard the terms used interchangeably...

AUG
19
2004
poikid

Agreed here anyways.

I really dont know about the book , never read it.

AUG
20
2004
spiralx

So...

Stall

A stall is where you manipulate the poi's centre of rotation to remove all momentum from it, leaving it completely at rest for at least an instant.

AUG
20
2004
matt

agreed ^^^

balls to the book, they never asked me my opinion anyway Sphism/winksmiley

¦m¦

AUG
20
2004
spiralx

What section should stalls go into in the Wiki? I'd thought either a "Rotational Reverse" section along with wraps (but not all stalls or wraps change direction) or maybe a "Stalls and Wraps" section?

AUG
23
2004
spiralx

Nobody?

I'm thinking a stalls and wraps section is probably the best... the two moves are both sort of related and don't really fit in anywhere else...

AUG
23
2004
matt

i had the sme trouble when sectioning the vids.

Stalls and wraps is cool, never did like that rotational reverse stuff ~ but now you know the reason for the name, cos it doesn't quite fit.

Also i felt that stalls and wraps kinda limits it a bit, personally i'd call the whole lot stops and stalls, but that's just me.

¦m¦

AUG
26
2004
Rev

sorry hadnt been paying attn.. thought stalls to be a moot point lol...

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