Define ~ Twistie
Define ~ Twistie
twistie
a state where the link is crossed like this:[code:1]o o
/
/
x x [/code:1]
Involves tying up a numer of turns on one side and untying and equal amount of turns on the other.. planes should be straight and hands even..
edited: to keep up with thread progression
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Define ~ Twistie
Again it works for me.
It could also be
What my hair is in.
Define ~ Twistie
Can I say I think knot is a really bad name for this as the poi don't tie into a knot...then again I can't think of a better name for it right now... all I can get in my head is a 'twist' but that doesn't clarify the matter, I can just see this ending up as bad as the hyperloop/airwrap confusion! Maybe open and closed tangles would be a way of describing them?
Define ~ Twistie
You might want to point out which of O and X are handles and which are heads. First time I saw your diagram I thought both Os were one poi and the Xs the other one
Actually I prefer twist to knot. But I'm not going to go into another naming argument :oops:
Define ~ Twistie
[quote="spiralx"]Actually I prefer twist to knot. But I'm not going to go into another naming argument
Define ~ Twistie
when you tie a hangmans knot (ala hangmans noose) you have to make a number of turns that tie the knot.. these turns are identical to the turns made by the poi when they twist (tie) up.. I mean spot on.. and the butterfly knots... like with the 180 turn and what not.. look at that and tell me it doesn't look like a knot..
Define ~ Twistie
it dosnt.
you can twist a rope as much as you like, its no a knot, knoting is the act of feeding one end through a loop in the other. certain knots, bloodknots for exapmple twist first to give extra friction but without the crutial loop and through element its not a knot. yes, alleteration is cool.
even in butterfly buzzssaw tangly thingy the poi are twisting up, not knotting.
T :twisted:
Define ~ Twistie
jeezum people... I'm not meaning knot in the literal sense.. in the hangmans knot you make 8 turns.. those 8 turns are pebably more of the knot then anyone will ever do.. I poisted this in the hyperloop section under tanlge definitions. everyone liked it.. or at least the warring factions agreed.. then I posted it and everyone wants to disagree.. what gives?
I would have never posted this if we didn't agree..
for the record a winmill isnt a windmill.. nor a buzzsaw a buzzsaw etc.. these are all what they resemble.. and the multibeat knots look like the butterfly turn.. looks like a knot..
Define ~ Twistie
thats what im saying, it dosnt even look like a knot
and it dosnt act like a knot. maybe if you go from orbital/airwrap/tangle/buzzsaw tangle and exit on the odd beat you get something that looks like a knot, but not just when your twisting it up, that looks like a twist.
stop hanging peaple and tie a normal knot, now does that look like a twist?
T :twisted:
Define ~ Twistie
You know, I think I like twist more then knot.
Define ~ Twistie
Knot: what happens when poi go wrong. Normally accompanied by some form of obscenity, and followed by a long session of untangling.
Define ~ Twistie
I'mgetting a vid of the butterfly knot and turn.. it is a knot.. I don't know how to describe it.. its not a twist.. and the butterfly thing opperates as the weave thing does.. the weave looks like a twist, in most cases.. the butterfly doesnt.. this isn't consistent...
I'm back for alpha and beta now.. noone wants knot.. so lets move on.. I only put this here because the other parties agreed..
[rant]
no offense but noone had input when we discussed this.. the opposite faction came to an agrement. noone else posted.. I post this here.. now people want to argue semantics.. this isnt a knot this is a knot.. yeah and this is a weave, and this is a corkscrew, and this is a windmill, and this is a buzzsaw.. hell this is a butterfly.. have you looked at those.. come on now.. i didn't post this here to be the founder of a term.. i didn't even comeup with.. I heard it in reference.. other people heard it. it came here. matt liked, I liked it, others liked it.. it made sense and was a good teaching tool.. and now we're going to argue over whether it is a literal KNOT... wtf..
[/rant]
sorry about that.. jsut had to vent..
Define ~ Twistie
Lol faerie
Sorry rev, I dont know much about this stuff 
Define ~ Twistie
ohh man,
buterfly twists, but in a diffrent way. in a weave twist, the heads twist round each other (which conversly means the handles are twisting round each other, exept theay arnt, exept in relative terms but.... ARRGH!)
in butterfly between the arms the heads twist round thier own handles, its just the same but shifted by 90 degrees. conversly (or should that be peversly) in butterfly its outside of the arms that the tangle dosnt twist and instead sits in its position still revolving. i.e. stage 2 bf airwrap.
T :twisted: (twisted, lol)
Define ~ Twistie
Rev if you can show me with a video or explain to me in very simple terms why we should use knot and not twist then I'll agree.
Define ~ Twistie
I got one.. I ahve itchell doing the butterfly knot... it ties like the first part of tying your shoelaces.. you know the part right before you go make the loops..
I can also do it with a normal weave based knot.. getting the same pattern..
basically think of tying your shoe laces.. the part at the beginning when you cross them, pull one under and one over, and then pull apart..... that is a knot.. that's what they do in the more complex stuff.. its not a variations either.. I can do one in the buzzsaw beautifully as long as i enter it from a knot.. and not just a tangled buzzsaw..
I'm going to see about getting a vid of me.. now that i ahve a few clips of itchell.. but both mine and his will have the knot as descirbed.. its a regular knot... even though most people think of a double knot as being a regualr not... a double knot is when you take the first part of tying a shoe twice... which I know is confusing to some since a double knot when refering to the bow tie of a shoe lace implies doubling the bow not.. but a regular double knot is the first part of a shoe lace twice..
infact the only reason some of the tanlge (generic sense) stuff I described on HoP and on here in the "tangled weaving.. or something like it" thread works is because of that knot...
Define ~ Twistie
so if its only like a knot when you do it butterfly, then why call it a knot all the time? Why not name it after something that's common to all variations of A tangle?
and there's more to a noose than just the twisty bit. Theres an actual knot at the top of the twisty bit, isn't there?
i reckun Twist has the popular vote, and makes sense.
Go on Rev, Twist and Tangle, you know it makes sense
Define ~ Twistie
[quote="Rev"]Involves tying up a numer of turns on one side and untying and equal amount of turns on the other.. planes should be straight and hands even..
Define ~ Twistie
1) butterflies aren't the only ones to knot... they can done with weaves too and it looks the same.. first part of a shoe string.. and the knotting occurs because of the twisting and untwisting action..
2) when you do knots (or twists) the plane you are wanting is going to be parallel (straight) with your hands.. thus when learning you want them your planes straight and hands even.. the designed is conical..
what do you want to call this then because you can do knots.. but they involve moving past the shoestrings hitting and crossing.. and I'm not going to go into all they ways that can happen, which results in the shoe string type beginnig knot.. I even have video clips.. I'm going to get them uploaded here soon..
I think this can get confusing having alpha twists, beta tangles, and knots.. whichmeans I'll have to reedit the definition of knot.. because before hand it was a semantic issue.. but now I know I'm doing knots. so I don't know.. I'll let you guys see the clips and judge.. we can wait til those are up..
Define ~ Twistie
I've been going over some of the footage.. and I see my error.. the tangle aforementioned as knot does twist.. and a tanlge just tangles.. but the combination of the 2 makes a knot. I have an 8 page paper though.. so I will finish cutting some shots and send them up when I get the chance..
Define ~ Twistie
what the???
So Knot isn't one of these any more?
you've totally confused the hell outta me now.
Define ~ Twistie
what do you mean by "planes straight" and "hands even"?
both could be interpreted in a few different ways...
i don't think any of my twists have the planes straight and hands even.
in fact i can't work out how the hell a twist could have straight planes at all. My poi's planes are generally about 45 degrees apart when they first touch.
hands even? in what sense? vertically, left
ight, forwardackward, rotationally?
none of the meanings i can think of matter for doing twistknots. You can do them with your hands any which way really...
Define ~ Twistie
And I have become confused again. I see where the knot thing came from now though.
Define ~ Twistie
so, to recap
theres a twisting action, a 'tangle' action (tangleB) and a knot action, and the knot depends on the interaction of the first two actions.
I know what your onabout rev, and with buzzsaw bf airwrap it does make a shoestring type not, up to one revolution, after that it just twists either side of the 'knot' there is a proper butterlfy knot, but it dosnt look anything like a shoestring knot.
i think knotting is a whole nother area of tangles, and shouldent be used to describe a basic twist up.
simian, the point of a tangle, dantana knows... its a nexus!
T :twisted:
Define ~ Twistie
this new 'knot' meaning - is it the same as the "nexus" you get when you only have an odd number of beats in a tangle before trying to take it out to a twist?
Define ~ Twistie
yeah, its not necacerally that tho, its when you have one poi done one more rotation outside/inside than the other. so if you take the wrong poi out of a tangleB the one inside has an extra beat of tangle b, so it knots.
you get the same effect butterfly.
T :wave:
Define ~ Twistie
simian- people preferer'd twistie to knot.. but I knew I was doing knots.. but I realized that I could do just a twistie..
see the picture you posted has straight planes as in the hands are even with each other creting a plane and the poi ideally are straight, parallel with that plane.. hence the twisting... but as the twsists are combined with tangles it knots..
another point of confusion.. hand rotations add and subtracts twists from the knot.. hand circles going contra spin untie, and hand circles with spin add.... but this is REAL confusing.. because there's this sweet spot.. if anyone can fill me on finding this harmony, please do.. but since you are working with the speed of the poi, the size of their orbit, the angle of the tanlge, and your hand cirlce size and speed.. oi.. just changing your poi length affects this timing.. but if you find this beatiful spin timing. it lets you continuously spin these knots.. by that I mean they actually pick up speed.. its confusing because its isolated, but with respect to what, i don't know.. it just happens.. I wish someone could help me..
anywhere that's where I stand.. I'm going to take a break form this and get some work done.. :27
Define ~ Twistie
yo,
iso tangles... jummmmm. :roll:
rotate with the poi, and you add beats, beacuse your taking the whole thing and pushing it round a bit further (like twisting the wrists in 5 beat) if you rotate faster than the tangle it untwists, slower and you only add maybe a quarter of a turn instead of a half. The sweet spot is an isolation, so that the twist is exactly half, and the poi heads and hands move round at the same point, just twisted in the middle.
Moving counter also adds more beats, but only on the exit.
same effect in butterfly with crossing the hands (instead of wheeling them like weave) cross one way winds up the tangle, crossing the other moves in tha same driection as the tangle and undoes it.
I call this the realm of wind-up tangles.
T :twisted:
Define ~ Twistie
[quote="FaerieWithoutWings"]Knot: what happens when poi go wrong. Normally accompanied by some form of obscenity, and followed by a long session of untangling.
Define ~ Twistie
Rev: cool, so do you wanna rename this thread to "define ~ twist" or are we gonna define the knot here and define the twist elsewhere. Cos at the moment its getting confusing again.
i see what you mean now, but completely disagree. You can do a twist like that, but you can also have the planes of your hands totally wonky, which particularly happens when you tangle in a non-symmetrical manner (on different parts of the poi body).
Define ~ Twistie
I'll get it renamed.. check out my post in tangles.. I don't think knots exist as anything other than a complex tangle.. I can do knots without twists.. I think its a product of the axis shifting from a cricle within a circle to 2 circles makeing a sphere.. if that makes sense.. because when I keep my hands in a plane parallel with the orbit of the poi.. I get a twist.. but when I disjunct the planes.. Like having them intersect.. then I create 2 circles, and thus one step closer to a sphere.. which is where the knot appears.. its the same in the butterfly stuff.. as you see itchells poi bounce inside and out.. (dunno if that's been posted or not )
and my twistes.. are mainly one twist.. by that I mean on the right side.. my right poi leads left poi leads into it.. but I've also held it for higher hbeat twisties.. although i don't do twisties at all now really.. save by accident..
Define ~ Twistie
8O i can say with complete authority that i have no idea what the hell a 'knot' is... but i'm kinda afraid to ask for even more details
[quote="Rev"]although i don't do twisties at all now really.. save by accident..
Define ~ Twistie
it wasnt' irreleveant... and I do still respect the twistie.. its just.. I'm so lost in this other nonesense, that I dont'delve outside for anything else.. like I really have to force myself to do something other then this f'd up phenomena..
perhaps I thought a lot of this was relevent to the twiste.. but its not because I started doing it all twistie-less.. and it was at that point that I decided to focus on one at a time.. and right now it happens to be the more boggling of the two.. sorry..
Define ~ Twistie
I think simian and I finally worked out what you've been going on tonight at poi
I see why you're talking about knots if we're right 
Define ~ Twistie
(he also finally got me to do a butterfly airwrap, after getting my head round the whole "actually getting the things to hit each other" problem
)
Rev - i have a severe tangle addiction too, which i think makes my spinning much uglier than it would be if i'd ignored the goddam things :roll:
i find that it's made much worse if i spin in limited space...
Define ~ Twistie
just wait.. it gets worse.. come to the darkside of tangling knots..
well.. go to the darkside.. I have to be out for a little while.. was working on the camaro yesterday and ripped 2 layers ofskin off my figner.. joy.. so I'm screwd on using my handles correctly.. I have some more videos for mat.. but I also need to get some video editing softwrare.. if people would pm some recomendations to me rather then spamming this topic.. like I'm doing.. :twisted: