Staff Style Spherculism

agreed, standard staff moves don't tend to pick up names. perhaps because 'spin it forwards' is self-explanatory enough. but the analogies with poi moves are there: the weave in staff is the weave from poi, and you count beats just the same. and there are butterflies in double staff.

contact staff, on the other hand, picks up names like nobody's business. the steve, the half-steve, matrix steves, and the colin [?] to name a few. the half-steve, for what it's worth, is when the staff goes from helicopter to contact roll down one arm, to neck wrap, to contact roll back up the other arm and back into helicopter. the steve is just the same but with a halo roll (roll in the ceiling plane/just off ceiling behind the head) added.

so yeah, we need a 'pedia for staff.

e / quiet

You got my vote :11

especially now i've seen fire stafff in person. i want some of that sh#t! :twisted:

0k lets start.

a 3bw is a move where the staff makes 1,5 turns on the one side and 1,5 turns on the other. after 3 full rotations the staff is in the same position as he started.
(question: in german-language a staff is male. same in english? and what about poi, are they female?)
there are lots of possibilities to do so.

I can see 3 categories:
-with one hand
-one hand passing to the other, here are quite a lot variants
-with both hands, this ones looks most like the poi-3bw.

what is the difference between a beat and a rotation???

veryquite wrote 31.08.: the weave in staff is the weave from poi, and you count beats just the same.

so we have the first confusion.
that is why I would love to have a "poidia" also for staff

sorry, i meant to deal with this above. the following is just my opinion; feel free to correct me.

from the 'poidia:

'Moves can be counted in terms of beats, where the number of beats is the number of revolutions each individual poi does before coming back to its initial position'

now apply this to staff. one staff revolution = one beat. consider the heads of the staff to be the poi [after all, it's the burning bits which you're generally most interested] and this should be obvious.

so they're the same.

q

I dont know, it is only my opinion. There has been alot of debate that you cant name a move from poi into the staff variation (specially if they already have defined names), or from clubs into poi...though as you know some people do. To me its like respect. Each has thier own soul and personality. To name a poi move after staff or staff move after poi degrades that art and puts it below in rank.

I always figured you need 2 two objects to cross before you can call it a weave and a beat. *example...doubles?* I use to call staff moves by their poi variation (because i see and understand your point) but was shot down harshly at hop as they already have a system of names and often refuse to name any move form their counterpart (poi/clubs). Which i have to respk.

This is by NO means hop. Im just hoping that all the validated names arn't going to be renamed AGAIN. Im confused enough.

Naming moves creates conflict, i'll to learn what everyone calls a move and try to understand, that way you avoid steping on peoples toes. Therefor...i have to concede, if you prefer beats, then im down...but if i talk about rot's...i hope you have the same respect.

i didn't mean to open a can of worms over this. two things:

1. people can call moves whatever they want; the whole point of naming them, I thought, was to enable communication. now if you teach someone a weave at poi, and then give them a staff, i'll bet good money that they'll know what to do if you ask them to do a weave at staff.

2. so if 'weave' serves to uniquely determine a staff move *and* a poi move, you might as well stick to that name for both moves. there's no point in multiplying moves beyond necessity.

oh, and i don't think that calling a staff move a 'weave' degrades it, or the poi move after which it was named. that's a silly idea

if you want to restrict 'weave' to moves with double staff, you're then at a loss when it comes to moves which emerge from breaking that weave up. e.g. one staff spinning forwards weave around the right hip, the other doing the same around the left.

in my experience, people tend to want to stick with 'their' names for 'their' moves. fair enough: but i'm damned if i'm going to indulge people's egos to quite that extent.

q

'I always figured you need 2 two objects to cross before you can call it a weave and a beat. *example...doubles?* I use to call staff moves by their poi variation (because i see and understand your point) but was shot down harshly at hop ' [see tani above]

my point was just that, when you're doing a weave, the poi don't actually ever cross. they're always parallel to each other [i.e. straight line, poi head to hands to poi head

on another note, who cares if someone called 'steve' was being possessive about his move? there are enough ppl in the world called 'steve' that calling it a 'steve' doesn't attribute it to anyone in particular, and so attributes it to no-one. i.e. it isn't possessive

but it is a neat shorthand

e

tum-de tum . . . *waits for download*

ooh. i like that. think i'll pinch your behind-the-back-and-over-the-shoulder rotation bit. nice.

re: how many beats; it depends on what you're doing. double-handed, you can do as many beats as you like if you're doing contact (this usually means taking it around an arm and rolling it back down that arm). without contact, i suppose i could get six beats into a two-handed (single-staff) weave, but it would look rather awkward. the two-beat weave looks pretty similar imo. i can see why you'd want to put a third beat in, in order to let you turn. probably to do with personal preference, tho'.

one final thought: are you putting in a contact roll at the top of your weave? i.e. behind the head? if not, you could do. there, that's a 7-beat

best,

vq

Bristol convention i will be up bristol next tues for a nite out. when is it?

had my first taste of spinning staff and with on fire later too. hanged out with strugz from Soton-firespinning.co.uk on fri and a load of other cool people. strugz were absolutly sick. darth maul look like an ametur now. gona try and make me a simple staff.

I'd be pleased providing some tutorials or freestyle video ...
but so far I don't have a video camera

my style at double staff is "poi spinning":
spinning, twirling & throws .. no contact yet
I've been trying most of the things I know at poi

there are so many synergies between poi & 2 staves
it took me 6 month to work the shit out ov my wirsts/grasp, so now I do similar move at poi & staves
I advise any poi spinners to get started 2 staves .. it really helps your poi & body move

In fairness - Steve didn't name the Steve after himself, I think Drew (Glass) called it the Steve first...
And Steve is generally acknowledged as one of the originators of contact staff - Maybe he didn't "invent" the moves (boy, there's another can of worms there) but he bought it into the fire-staff world.

Personally - I don't think you can do a weave with 1 staff in 1 hand. You can do a "Figure of 8" or "Shotguns" (The double, snake version), but a "weave" - to me at least - implies both hands holding something and threading over and under each other.

Suggestions for Single Staff Move Families...

~ Basic Spinning (Fig-8's, shotguns, turns, helicopters, palmspins etc)
~ Throws & Catches
~ Contact Staff
~ Acro-staff (Cartwheel pickups, butterfly kick UTL passes etc )

A fig-8 with 2 extra rotations is *drumroll* a shotgun!

Comes from the pumping action in front of you - very similair to Arnold S in Terminator 2 on the bike... Or so I believe.

It is a good name though...

AWSOME! I dont mind, even though im 56k, obviously cut up is better to me, but whatever you come up with, ill be happy.

morning guys.

thanks durbs for explaining the origin of the name 'steve'.

the steve it was named after has the smallest ego and biggest talent around. it was named in respect not cause he wanted it so.

anyhow.

yes tani i will post a ridiculously long and complicated encyclopaedic post here. probly next week when time allows(promo vod to edit, and late starting already)

hey matt did you manage to get hold of the second tape of that stuff you were filming of me at brizzle? i'd like to see some of the stuff i was doing from two angles if poss.
ta

rob soontomakemostcomplicatedstaffposteverbluecat

:umm: no go'ie.

Are people really that pissed off when club swinging and poi moves are called the same thing? I don't see what leg they can be standing on when the movement and pattern is exactly the same. Which is why I use the devilsticking term: propellor for a contact staff move that *is* a propellor, just without a control stick.

Plus I'm also going to use the devilsticking / club swinging term 'trap' for double staff traps.

Since it makes sense and avoids confusion. And when I say confusion I mean confusion like: Your calling that move by a different name? It's just the same as a: <move name>.

holy smoke batman!

I didn't realise there was a second page!

:oops:

have fun with this:

http://void.printf.net/~meghan/Staff.pdf

Once uni finishs properly at the end of next week, I will have magical free time to do things!

<off to check out matts videos...>

Still trying to figure out what the moon means in terms of emotions...

For conversational clearness move names are important, but in terms of spinning, names don't matter. I thought people would be happy that they didn't have to learn loads and loads of names....

But names are important generally, look at iceland and greenland forinstance.

shit! I thought I had replied to this. I hate it when you reply in your head but not on the internet... :oops:

I don't think I do have a name for that move... sounds good thou. It would probably be in the elbow section if it was. The nearest I can think is a horizontal elbow trap, that you push way from your body straighten your arm and let it spinon your forearm / elbow before trapping it again in your same elbow.

Ask away!

Mostly the half versions are just aids to learning....

If there a full jesus? Shit, better go find it...