Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
I've been thinking about tangles alot recently and thought I'd share some of my thoughts ![]()
First I think I may need to clarify my ways of thinking about some stuff.
When I say tangle I just mean the poi bodies are linked in some way... not in any specific way! Could be an airwrap, a hyperloop or anything like that. :twisted:
When I call something 'atomic' I mean the poi are spinning about an approximately similar central point but with axis at 90 degrees to each other.
When I say something is 'butterfly' I mean the poi are spinning in opposite directions with an approximate common axis
When I say something is 'chase' I mean the poi are spinning in the same direction with an approximate common axis.
That might help. If you can't see it try either right-clicking and 'show picture' or click HERE
Now, some of the brighter among you may have noticed that the butterfly above is actually the atom with the planes brought more vertical, and the chase (in this instance a corkscrew) is the atom with the planes brought more horizontal. ![]()
And so we get to tangles. It has occured to me that to enter a tangle the planes of each poi cannot be parallel or they will just miss each other, they must be angled to one another and intersecting in some way.
This one from garthy is quite similar to the ones I have been playing with, so it may give you an idea where I'm coming from.
My point is when you enter the tangle you need to swing the poi into each other and at this moment you can no longer be spinning a perfect butterfly, it must have it's planes at least slightly angled to one-another as in fig A above ![]()
Now if you exagerate this angling of the plans you start to enter the tangle from an atom, as in fig B, an atomic tangle! ![]()
If you twist the planes even more you end up entering with both poi going in the same direction as in fig C. a chase tangle. :22
Everything about the way the poi heads move in, out, through and round your arms and the poi bodies remains the same, it is essentialy the same tangle that garthy shows but you enter it from a corkscrew type thing rather than a butterfly.
Which leads me to think that alot of tangles (if not all) are essentially atomic, in that they have a basic form that enters from an atomic situation, but they can be squashed one way to enter from butterfly moves or the other way to be entered from chase moves. obvously different tangles may resolve easier one way than the other but I think in theory every tangle may be possible to do in chase atomic or butterfly variations.
In theory you can take the tangle you end up with in the above example and turn it 90 degrees to enter it like a normal buzzsaw hyperloop, but the difficulty is in dodging your hands through the paths of the poi without having gravity to bounce them against 8O
...I'm working on it ![]()
Likewise it should be possible to enter a basic buzzsaw tangle from an atom (which I sometimes do by mistake...
) or from a butterfly!
Well that's my Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
I hope that made sense to someone other than me. I'm sure I had more ways to explain it but they escape me now.
:14
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Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
Damned pic-linking! If you still can't see the pic try clicking HERE
Finally got the chase version of this last night!
Feels WIERD! makes me grin
I start as a reverse buzzsaw hyperloop from RHS. Right poi comes between arms, left poi goes outside left, right poi goes outside right, left poi goes between, right poi goes outside left to exit.
Needs a kind of drunk swaying motion...
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
:oops:
Well I'm thinking it could be one or more of the following;
Everyone's confused and doesn't have the first clue what I'm talking about. 8O
Everyone already knows this and is wondering why the hell I'm posting it.
Everyone's still on holiday and no-one's seen this thread.
Everyone hates me... :cry:
Any suggestions?
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
Simple: Your idea is correct :idea:
And for a challenge: Try a continuous tangled buzzsaw - atomic :twisted:
Thx for the post
andy
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
You've not distinguished between same and opposite direction atoms though, nor boxes, which is where it's easiest to see that atomic tangles are just regular ones folded out to a proper atom. But I don't disagree with your basic theory
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
???? IMHO Atoms have no same/opposite direction.
???? IMVHO Atomic and Box Hyperloops are the same.
:53
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
Wow, people
SpiralX: I can see what you mean about same/opposite direction atoms, I guess if you're spinning same direction wheel planes and you turn the planes inwards you get same direction atoms, if you're spinning opposite directions to begin with you get opposite direction atoms
but I don't see how that affects what I've said, care to elaborate?
Also (and IMVHO) aren't box tangles are the same as atomic tangles , just linked a bit nearer the head.
MIT: Been trying that continuous atomic tangled buzzsaw but it just seems to collapse back into the chase version really quickly
I'll get it though...
Been trying the butterfly variation too, which seems to be more stable 8O but also more painfull as each one spins inside plane half the time (my chin/ears hurt :roll: )
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
if you're spinning same direction wheel planes and you turn the planes inwards you get 5Beat :!: atoms
The butterfly version is in principle the same as the weave version (Atoms are neither Butterfly nor Weave) with the difference that one plays sametime - which seems to make it easier
imho
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
Well I see it as being odd
If you start with same direction wall planes and fold them in you get something where you do atomic buzzsaw weaves, TTNs and hyperloops like butterfly ones.
If you start with opposite direction wall planes you get something where you do atomic buzzsaw weaves that are like butterfly normal ones and hyperloops like standard ones.
But they are different. MadeInThailand - what do you mean about 5bt atomic weaves?
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
You can check out my thread on HOP about Atomic Weaves. The two you describe are 2 different/independent families of Atomics. (Quote: "But they are different") Due to the fact that atoms have no direction its hard to find aproproate names.
Your ''same direction" I call 5beat because you have to do a 5 beat movement in order to twist/untwist your hands.
The ''opposite direction" would be the 3 beat since you only need a 3 beat hand movement to twist/ untwist.
Personally I dont really like these classifications as well, but they were the most "accurate" I could come up with.
Does this help?
Squashed Atomic Tangle Theory!
Ah yes, I see what you mean. I've not mastered the "5bt" atomic weave stuff yet though.