When is military force justified?

I think military action is justified when.... there is justifcation... I know that sounds a bit redundant but hear me out..
Most often we never get why its justified, nor do we get enough reasons to ever evaluate for ourselves whether or not it was justified.. Society has evolved to the point where decisions like this are out of our hands.. why you ask? Because like parents with children the 'good' is often not what the kid wants, because the kid, even if it were dumbed down and explained to, most often would not understand what is being presented...Take for example, the Iraq war... Had Bush came out to the public and said "look.. that fucker over there is not selling oil to us except what the un sanctions him to, and is giving free oil money to the un to look the other way, while he sell dirt cheap oil to our enemies (france, and the like).. These other countries are stealing power from our economy, and we must strike back to level the playing field, lest we crumble like the soviets during the cold war.. " Most people wouldnt understand that.. I'm willing to wager.. most STILL don't..

so.. the question is.. what is justified? is justified what you the average person knows feels? or is justified what is deemed down from a panel of experts? I mean sure you can watch the media's and their blatant misuse of expertise, or you can wakeup from you coma and see the world.. Because now what it boils down to is trust of experts... whihc is the bane of our society..

The essential point to this question of whether you feel certain actions are justified? and whether your voice is heard.. I mean these are democratic actions we are talking about.. and the democratic thing is to hold public discussion right.. but unfoprtunately we have evolved into a society of expert knowledge, where the layman no longer has a say.. nor does his say matter, because in the end he will see the greater good.. Take for example Sweden... do we have any swedes here? If we do, then by all means allow them to explain how the royal commission of experts decide anything and everything, with, or without the will of the people.. and the rest of the world needs to pay attention.. because this is where democracy is is going.. it started as an aristocracy,(only rich landowners had a say), then it moved to higher form of democracy, where the poeple had a say, and now we are moving into the realm of constantly defer'ing our judgement to commissions of experts, who tell us what the 'public good' is..

But I'm ranting enough.. so I ask you this? at what point can -you- make an accurate decision about justification? At what point can you say that regardless of what new info comes to light, X is/isn't justified in doing Y?

How far are you willing to fall before you fight for what's yours? right and wrong are completely out of the question here because right and wrong are subjective.. Are you willing to kill other people so your life doesnt change, or do you adapt to the new world that you are forced to live in to save some other peoples lives?

[quote="astar"]what's ideal about anarchy? If you take away the government, and say, I like your fertile land and I happen to have a lot of weapons and some greedy men to side with me, No one is to stop me from moving in, shooting all your people, takeing your women, and stealing your land. I think it's ridicilous to think anarchy would be pleasant.. or even exist for more then a few decades before someone ceized power. Inorder for it to even exist you would need some sort of organized anti-government, powerful enough to prevent anyone from establishing a government.

more of a change in awareness then a change of heart, it would most likely happen on a sliding scale up untill critical point. you see brainwaves are contageous. so when enough people are utilising thier consciousness effectively then i would expect a domino effect on the remaning human cognizance. all it would take is for people to not let thier unchecked emotions run rampant.

look at the world around you, think of the friends you have and the things you have experienced. can you really fail to realise that this world has limitless potential?

the flaw is... good = good.. which is not the case.. ->my<- good is someone elses bad.. hence why there are disputes over things like morality.. you can't just let people do as they please because we can't all have our way....

as far as limitless potnetial.. no doubt.. but that's mainly because of potential of the process.. whihc we are just parts of, not in charge of, to the extent that we can live in an world that eveolves past us.. whihc can take any number of forms.. one being us blowing the world to bits.. LOL.. I just mention this because we hold ourselves to be the most advanced, yet we already understand that we have incredible limitations.. the next step could just as easily -not- include us as we essentially don't -need- other forms of life.. I mean shit.. there's plenty more advnaced 'worlds' in the universe than ours.. so yeah.. there's potential o plenty..

so don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying its not possible.. jsut saying HIGHLY improbable..

For a Utopia to work, you need one thing.. balance.. a perfect balance.. unfortunately we have for the most part a balance right now.. however the world is balnaced by black and white.. rather than being balanced by being -all- grey.. its not saying we will not have particular vantages and identity, just that the allowed divergence from the 'norm' needs to be infintely small.. the closer to 0 divergence, the more utopian the society will become.. there is your perfect place, and for me a complete nightmare.. The beatiful thing about this world is that we have the broad spectrum from black to white.. disagreement is where we -live-..

Think of it like this.. if everything is good, and nothing is evil, then what do you have to base the idea of goodness on? Good can't exist without evil or black without white..