Spherculism 2
I've been meaning to write this introduction thread for spherculism 2 for a while now, and here it finally is. The mods and i have been discussing some ideas for a while now and i think we've finally agreed on the kind of form that S2 will take.
Originally I intended S1 (this site) to be free videos, S2 was gonna be dvd and S3 a world tour 
However this site has exploded beond my wildest dreams. So i'm gonna stick to web based tuition for S2.
As you all know, i've given away a lot of videos for free and put in a hell of a lot of time to setting up this site. I have found this extremely rewarding, and equally tiring at times.
If someone had employed me on a commersial basis to set up this site for them the bill would be something like £10,000 - £20,000 ~ fortunately i'm a clever little boy and didn't have to pay anyone to make this site for me.
It's been very difficult for me to decide on a method of earning money back from the site and as a result it has been a labour of love. It is particularly difficult because I don't feel people should have to pay for knowlege.
I have been very impressed by all the people who have donated money to the site. I've now got £300 which i'm gonna put toward a very nice camcorder so i can make even more badass videos.
So how can we push things forward even more? Well I'm no longer planning on making a dvd. Mainly because a dvd will be out of date within a few weeks of being produced. Videos on the web however can be kept 'cutting edge'.
The videos you get for free will not be taken away from you. I feel they are adequate to get everyone up to the level of 'initiate' ~ beginner if you prefer. I don't consider them to be in any way advanced, for the advanced videos, come back in 20 years or so. Don't let this make you feel deflated about your achievements. Many of newbies around here will way surpass everything i can do wih poi. The hardest thing about teaching is that if you succeed then your student will be far more advanced than you.
So then, spherculism 2 will be a cheap monthly pay site, or rather a section of this site. Originally i planned on having S2 completely separate. So you have a whole set of forums and videos on the new site. However Rev pointed out that this would provide the perfect environment for 'elitism' between those who could afford the monthly fee and those who could not. So there will only be 1 set of forums which will be open to all members of S1 and S2.
There will however be a massive improvement to the quantity and quality of the resources that S2 members gain access to. Afterall, they will all be pitching in time and money for those developments to take place.
So what will you get for your money?
First off i'll add a complete update to all the poi tutorial vids. The ones you currently have are 18 months out of date now. I'll redo the whole set with more visible poi. I'm thinking of using a black background instead of white with bright coloured poi. Essentially it means you'll have a clearer view of everything we have so far plus everything i missed out last time plus everything i've learned in the past 18 months. This will include loads of wibbles and tangles, and also some inversions and strange things to do with planes.
I'll have a nice new camcorder soon so i'll be aiming at uploading new stuff every month including many more nicely edited freestyle vids.
I've learnt a great deal recently about editing video, compressing video and delivering video over the web. So you'll see vast improvements in the quality of the video and download times. You will have access to all videos in various file formats, eg avi, mov and swf (flash). So whether you use mac or pc and whether or not you can find the right friggin codecs ~ you'll be able to view the videos.
I'm currently developing the S2 movie viewer in flash, the first demo of this can be seen here
You can load different videos into different viewports (you may have to press the load button twice, like i say it's a very early demo). You can then zoom in and out of the clip, move it around the screen, pause, play, slo motion at various speeds, forwards and backwards. You can also load up poibot into a viewport and will be able to overlay poibot onto a video. This also means that we can motion capture the movements of poibot to get them super tight 
We'll develop the flash viewer so it includes a teaching mode. Once all the funcionality is in place we can write little scripts to slo-mo the video, then pause, add big arrows and text, perhaps audio, to explain the problems you might face and particular points to take note of. We may develop this in line with the 'video surgery' so you upload a video, then maybe rev adds notes and/or audio to it so you and everyone else can learn from that vid.
Next up is poibot. If you haven't seen the current version of poibot yet you can check it out here
Hit 'Randomise All' a few times to see what she can do.
I'm happy with how poibot spins poi at the moment but I plan to develop it a lot over the next year. For starters there will be the ability to save the patterns you have made directly onto the server. Therefore you will also be able to load a script. This means that it's up to everyone to develop poibot. Also it means that if you have discovered some badass thing with you're poi you should be able to show everyone else using the bot. It also means that the geekier umongst us will be able to test theories about patterns we cannot do and hopefully discover thing we had never considered.
Poibots joints will be limited in how they bend to make her far more realistic. There will be 'collision detection', ie if the poi spins into an arm it will wrap. Likewise with tangles and wibbles. The current version of poibot doesn't take into account forces and accelerations, it's just diagramatic. Later versions will utilise physics engines like Havok.
I may be able to make 3d poibot in flash using a 3d engine which a friend
of mine has developed. It can handle about 300 points in 3d space and render them in real time with lighting. So you'll be able to orbit the camera
around in 3d and zoom in and out to get a great idea of what's going on with each movement. If i can't do it in flash i will use shockwave, which has a built in 3d engine and a Havok physics plug in. This would produce mindbogling results.
Okay, so as a member of S2 you get access to a huge ammount of information which really explains how to teach yourself all this great stuff. Now you're gonna need some badass toys to play with. This is where sphercommerse comes in. There's already a thead about this but essentially it will be a place where you can buy and sell equipment and materials, like a local village market. I imagine this will be open to everyone but step by step instructions on how to make great sets of poi will be restricted to S2.
We'll also be integrating the wiki more fully into S2. I'll make a module which will give you the information from the wiki, videos to go with it and poibot script to demonstrate it in 3d. All accessed through the S2 movie viewer. So every term in the wiki will get a corresponding video and poibot.
There is also talk of having everyone keep a log of what they have learnt so that a program can suggest areas which you might wanna explore next and highlight areas which you have 'missed out' along the way.
:arrow: So the big question on your lips is..."So how much is this gonna cost me?"
This is a question which has been going around and around my head for months now and is still totally open to debate. Assuming that the less it costs the more people will pay and the more money spherculism recieves the better the content will be.
How much do you think the monthly fee should be? (1 month being a lunar month, 4 weeks per month, 13 months per year)
I've got my own ideas about this but i'd be very interested to know how many people would be willing to pay for this service, how much you think it is worth and ultimately how much you would be willing to pay for it.
¦m¦
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Comments
Spherculism 2
i wouldn't like to pay more than £5 a month, if i was a performer id be willing to pay more. id suggest £2-3 per month, obviously i don't know how much its going to cost and how many people will happily pay.
i think 2-3 would be cheap enough not to scare people off. iv never payed for web site access, spherculism would of course be the exception. probably a good idea, iv been meaning to donate since well... pretty much since i joined. spherculism and hotmail are the only regular sites i use
its hard to imagine quite how good it be. can't friggin wait.
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same as Firebreath, I see 5£ as a good upper limit per month
All the proposals for S2 sounds pretty interesting
looking forward to it
Maybe you should use a blue background to shoot your new vids
so that you can change the video background with somthg else.
I've read a post on jongle.net by a guy, saying it was easy to implement
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I'd be good for a month
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holla i would be ok with 5 to 8 euro a month
we try to open a new forum in germany firedancer.de and it´s also one of our big question what and where comes the energy back we put in....
this site is one of the heroes out in the net and the poiple can be proud of it, s2 will maybe overtop it, we will see
alpha inlighted :38
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hmmm... it's a toughie cos as a student i have no set income and don't even have a contract mobile let alone credit card etc... BUT the ideas for ~S2~ are really good an i'd probably just sign up to see it get off the ground!
I think the equivalent of a monthly magazine subscription would be a fair price, maybe £30-40 a year? or about £3-4 a month... i currently give greenpeace £4 a month despite my lack of funds... but with 15000 members say only a few hundred sign up that's still be quite a significant amount over a year... hope that helps a bit.... 
edit: that was quite an honest answer actually and based from the point of view of someone who's pretty strapped for cash at the moment. whatever you do don't undervalue yourself man!
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I was completely shocked reading that. I'd have no problem buying DVD's and I even intended to ask matt to build my next set of poi. I'm apauled at the idea paying for any sort of extra privilage and I will boycott spherculism if that happens. As much as I like poi this is something I would never think about doing. :evil:
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Hey achluo, i'm sorry you feel that way.
But don't freak out about this. I've given this a lot of thought, it's taken over a year to figure out how this can work and believe me, everyone will benefit from this. I'm not about to get all power hungry and freaky on you ~ okay?
For example.
We're making this dvd this year and it will cost about £2000 to get maybe 2000 dvd's, in cases and with nice books to go with them. I don't have £2000 pounds to front this so spherculism will need to save up this amount by november, otherwise it's going to be tricky to release the dvd.
Spherculism has been donated £300 and i'm adding £200 to that to buy a camcorder for £500 so that I can make loads and loads of new videos for the site. That means there'll be new vids for S1 and S2. But all the stuff from S2 will eventually trickle over to S1.
Plus for S2 i'm developing this movie viewer which we'll put to good use in S1 as well.
And the thing is, if people put time into writing great posts and help out round the place then they can come into S2 anyhow. The cost is mainly for the people who come and download all the videos and don't put anything back.
I hope that puts your fears at rest, if not pm me if you like.
matt
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Same as Achluo... I'd pay for DVDs and gear etc, but not to be a member... Goodbye Spherc, hello PiP and HoP!
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Faerie, i must admit i'm gutted to hear you say that. It's been going round and round my head all last night.
The thing is, i totally hear where you're coming from, that's why spherculism has been completely free and that's why i gave away all of the videos which i intended to sell on a dvd.
I think you're are being pretty harsh tho. I mean this site has over 1 hours worth of footage on it. I called in favours to get it filmed in the first place using £3000 worth of camera equipment. I've paid out about £200 to keep the site alive and put in countless hours setting it up and fixing problems. And within a couple weeks i'm gonna have to start paying for hosting again.
I haven't had any spare time to upload new videos in almost a year.
You do understand that spherculism as it stands now will remain as it is? with all the same videos and the forum and the poidia. I'm not taking anything away from spherculism, I'm simply adding a new module and focusing much more time into making loads of new videos.
I would love to give all this stuff away for free but i already have a full time job and run spherculism in my spare time. Between wildcat and ¦s¦ i work about 60 hour weeks and usually take home around £230 per week assuming i don't take days off to work on the site. After paying my mortgage, student debts and bills i live a comfortable lifestyle but have no spare money whatsoever.
If you still feel like you wanna leave spherculism then do so. But i'll miss having you around, that goes for you too achluo. You've both been here since the beginning and put so much effort into making this site what it is.
I'm sorry if this post sounds harsh, I really do understand why people might freak out about spherculism going 'commersial'. But it's really not so bad. It just means that anyone who can afford to do so will help me cover the costs of the site and everyone on the site will benefit. And i'm letting you guys choose how much you wanna pay. It's only gonna end up costing the same as like a drink or 2 in a pub per month. I think you'll be getting a great deal for your money on S2 but if you don't then stick to S1. The forum will be the same for both so you'll still get all the benefits of poiple teaching each other how to do all the crazy new stuff.
Anyhoo,
i'm 2 and a half hours late for work,
matt
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I think that is a crucial point matt, that |S|1 and |S|2 are not sequential, ie |S|2 will not replace |S|1. I wasn't clear on that point I must admit.
I think that thye main prob with stuff like this is what people in general are used to being able to get for free nowadays what with the net being so prolific- music and media in general are an obvious example-- someone somewhere foots the bill, unseen or otherwise.
I really hope all current members support |S|2 (if they can afford to- I like Duballstar am a student and a proper skint one at that). Personally I have gained so much from the site that it feels good to nmot only put something back, but to truely support its existance and growth.
Hugs to all,
Chutney
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If you intend to leave.. because we will have section of the site that is pay.. then I'm sorry, but bye... Many of you already have sent in donations to help this site stay alive.. but yet asking for continued donations, is wrong?!? I'm sorry.. We -all- have worked really hard to make spherc what PiP, hop, and other sites arent... and if you are content staying with just those sites, then perhaps what spherc offers isnt for you. you cannot get what we offer here at those other sites.. Hence why all the members of those sites.. are still members of those sites -and- members here..
We are -not- making everyone have to pay.. Only those that want the benefits of S2.. Think of it like being an inverstor, and receiving benefits.. right now we have nothing to offer those that donate, but our thanks.. And soon those donations are what is going to ultimately keep this site alive.. and I think in that respect, those that help keep it alive should deserve osmething special..
-I- am a graduate student.. Which means I don't get grants and other non-sense from the government for trying to pursue and education with no income.. I'm also part of a graduate program that does not condone its studentss working.. since there is a strong correlation between working and failing the program.. I'm married.. and have all the bills that adults pay (soon a mortgage,insurance, etc) as well as living expenses for two people on one almost insignificant income.. and -I- have reworked my finaances so I could pay for it, if matt asked me to..
so I'm sorry guys.. anyone who leaves I will truly miss.. but I don't see how adding a pay section means you can't stay a member of the free section, nor how if you wanted in the pay section that you couldn't come up with money...
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Having to pay for |S|2 is definatly not a reason to boycott Spherculism altogether. I for one defend Matt's right to charge for |S|2. Compared to other pay sites for learning poi (10 dollars a move) I bet what ever Matt gave us would be well worth the money, for alot less. For all hes given us and poi I don't think this is much to ask. Matt's put alot of time and resources into Spherculism with no return other then helping all of us become loads better at spinning. I feel we almost owe it to him.
I would prolly rather just pay for the year like -30 a year if that would be possible. That seems fair to me for supporting a worthy cause.
Spherculism 2
I'd be willing to pay within my means (maybe up to a month, but that's iffy) for extra stuff. This site is an awesome resource, and it takes a lot of hard work to create and maintain something like this. So I look at this whole thing as a way of supporting Spherculism and getting something back for it.
I am kind of curious, though, as to the bit Matt mentioned about people who put time into writing good posts and helping out and such being about to come in to S2 without paying. Just kind of wondering what the standard would be. It seems like potentially tricky ground.
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I see what you mean... I just felt that if I want to see videos of the ilk on the "S2" section I can get them off other websites; not necessarily leave |s| altogether! I only come on the forum anyway... I've used the videos about four times to show the numpties at uni who say "Oh? What's poi?" and all the interesting variations of pronounciation that come with it!
Didn't mean to upset you |M| *hug*
(NB when was the last time I posted in a tech forum?!)
Spherculism 2
Thats okay FWW, but believe me, you won't be able to get anything like what i've got planned for S2 anywhere else.
The focus of S1 was to show everyone what was out there and then try to help everyone learn the stuff thru the forums.
The focus of S2 is to break everything down and really teach it. Using an interactive thingy i'm developing in Flash.
It's gonna be totally sick and in no way limited to just poi
I've just spent the last week trying to push all the little projects that have been on the cards for ages; S2, webshop and dvd.
I'm about as anticapitalist as it gets so it's taken me a long long time to figure out how S2 can work without becoming a capitalist whore.
I'm certainly not gonna take the money and run. It means that spherculism will be able to afford a better server (not rely on wildcat) plus new software to make badass new videos. And i can't wait to get this new camcorder.
I know enough people to make badass staff, diablo and juggling videos. It's so hard to get people to do everything on a favours basis. I'd love to be able to say to an amazing diablo spinner "spherculism will pay you say £100 for a couple hours tutorials and i'll burn the whole lot off for you to keep on dvd". Then it's a pretty fair trade.
No hard feelings fearie, it was just the last thing i wanted to hear.
:hug:
You really should check out more of the videos tho, it's turned into quite a resource.
matt
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Hey
It'll be sad if ya'll go. Personally I think Matt has every right to charge for S2 after all things have been taken into account, and he's looking for fair pricing so I see no reason to get upset about it achluo. Spose you have your reasons.
S1 is already an amazing resource, community and whatnot. I'm excited to see what wikkid stuff can be done here with a little bit of financial support. When I very first heard of Matt's idea for s2 I was also rather shattered at the thought of having to pay, but again, when all things considered, I think it's awesome. We wouldnt be paying for a membership, but rather even better resources than what S1 will continue to have. I'm up for it.
-poikid-
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I hate the tutorial videos... Nothing to do with you, but I mimic someone's dancing style just by being next to them in a club for ten minutes, and I keep pulling moves and thinking "Damn... I'm sure I've seen someone else do exactly that..." so I try to look at videos to appreciaite someone's technical skill, not to learn new stuff. I'm sure someone out there will respond with "But how do you learn new moves?" Answer: I teach myself. It means I get stuck in the rut of how I poi but I like it, so it's a balance.
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Yeah I feel that way too sometimes. I used to play squash and badminton and I would always copy the style of play of my opponent, usually to the detriment of my performance.
With spinning it's sometimes the same, but not so much. The best practise you can do is practising on your own. But for making up new tricks it's best usually to have somebody to bounce ideas off. Sometimes I feel that when I make up a new trick on my own, it's just a goofy trick I should show nobody ever...
This is totally off topic.
S2 will rule!
Spherculism 2
I doubt I'd pay either. It's sounds great, some fab ideas. 3d poibot you be very hard to say no to, but i think in the long run I would still refuse. A dvd or something would be fine, but acsess to a few more lessons and some extras, hmmm. I'd say that alot of people would also take the same approach. We've all spent loads of time surfing for poi sites, and there are quite a few out there, but have you ever considered to pay for one? Most of the time I'd sooner think, hah! how could they ask for money, sooner than actually considered it.
You'd only sell it to people who already know what the contents is, the inner cirlcle of spherc. I dont think it would sustain itself.
Best of luck,
but I'm not in.
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Mot Figured i may as well quote my reply to your pm.
Other than that I'd say that the main reason to sign up to S2 is to support spherculism so that we can all push the artform forward. Everything like vids, poibot, wikipoidia and what not are just a means to do that.
If it ends up just being a small group of 'inner circle' spinners then that's fine with me. It looks like being £3 () a month. So if we have 30 members in S2 I can take at least 2 days off work a month. 1 day filming, 1 day editing and uploading. So with only 30 members out of 1500 I should be able to add about an hour of good footage every month. Within 2 months you have as much content as a dvd, within 6 months you have enough content for 3 dvd's. But any new member to S2 will be able to access 3 dvd's worth of info for only 3 quid. Sounds like quite a bargain to me. But like i said, i prefer web vids to dvd, especially using the S2 movie viewer with streaming vids.
And mot, if you send me some good vids you get in gratis anyhow.
Anywho, got work to do,
m
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Perhaps the name "spherculism 2" is a bit off-putting. What about "spherculism+" or something?
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idea |x|
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I'll happily call it what ever you like, S2 is only really the working title anyhow. Its clever you see, i toook the name of the concept and added on the age of the site, spherculism (year) 2. Bingo
Of course we could call it 'Home of Wibbles'
I agree that the name might ut people off, I have therefore renamed he new site 'Zee Zee Nine Plural Zee Alpha'
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As for paying for |s2| I fully for it and can understand the reasons.
Someone said:
"People are used to getting stuff for free on the internet"
This statment is generally true but as expenses rise it's very common for sites to start charging. Normally some group will get anoyed at this (Generally the people not paying) and go off and start there own site. Then as this gains popularity he cost rise and the cycle starts again!
Someone somewhere has to pay and if It get very popular then the prices can be massive! Video downloads really don't help!
I don't think there are the level of comprehnsive technical poi spinning videos available on the internet anywhere else. The one site I know of that charges for lessons I wasn't too impressed with (They're offline now so I can't look) So paying for something better that |s|? Where's the problem?
Maybe different levels of paying fo |s2|?
Poor student Month
Profesional Month
There's always advertising? Give S2 to everyone and allow people to pay to get rid off adverts? Not sure if this works but some sites have done it?
You do say that the forums will not split. I still can see a problem when people are discussing things that are only accessable to S2 people
Make S2 free and charge for higher quality videos and the ability to down load in loads of formats?
I say good luck Matt!
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I Like the idea of doing concessions for people. Personally i had a lot more accessible cash as a student than i do now i have a mortgage. So perhaps students pay extra
JOKE
I like the idea of having everything free, low res with no S2 movie controls. Then if you want added functions like slo motion, reverse direction, zoom and pan. multiple videos at different angles, interactive guided lessons and downloads in multiple formats then you pay maybe £4.00 if you have a full time job and £2.50 if you are unemployed or a student. Do you think people could be trusted to pay the correct ammount or should we try to enforce it?
The thing is that if the pay poi site works then spherculism could pay people to make other sets of videos for other things. In 10 years time i'd love for spherculism to be a resource for loads of different stuff. So the liquid dancers learn from poiple, who've picked up a couple techniques from the diablo players who learnt some stuff from the Tai Chi people. I wanna see our poi community expand into different areas so we can all learn from each other.
It's just gonna be tricky to strike the right balance. Which is why I'm discussing it with you all before the site is up and running.
Take it easy,
m
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I think with the student / job thisng you're just gonna have to trust people. If they're gonna lie they're gonna find a way around it anyway. I find as a student I grabbed everything I could cheap. Now as a job having type person I don't mand paying that extra bit.
Maybe the people who pay a bit more get a preview a week before the rest see it? and release the free lowres stuff even later but it will eventually come out. If this stuff is mind blowing then people will want to subscribe to get the content first!
All very difficult ballance to get right! Alot of the Ideas I suggesting are being done.
http://lwn.net/ the Site that released stuff later for free got me paying in the end as I realy wanted to see the stuff early!
Maybe micropayments option (although I'm not sure if this has ever worked in a real system and it's a probably bugger to setup and administer!) so you pay for credit and then watching media in High res reduces your credit? So people who use the site alot pay a bit more.
Just bouncing Ideas around really.
One problem I see is people without Credit cards. You're locking out a whole range of people under the age of 18 (Or is it 16?) who can't pay online?
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just on your last point man, you wouldnt necessarily block out people too young to own a credit cards. my barclays current account is also a visa card, so online payments are no problem. and the legal age for that is about 16, or something. im guessing others like natwest have also affiliated their current account with one of the major credit providers.....
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I had originally intended it to be that you pay maybe £0.10 (I am so glad you took the idea Matt, and I am very pleased I could do something to help out here. You no doubt have recieved my private message by now, I hope there will be no hard feelings. When I can, I will be here, but please understand.. I have to sort things out in my own life right now, and any spare time simply cannot be spent here..
I will do what I can, when I can, but I cannot be in charge of it right now..20) per video or something like that.
Then maybe you buy £10 worth of sphercular credits and use them however you like. I figured i could have then payed people in credits for putting time and effort in to making it a better site.
But rheo who's actually got to build the payment system said it would be a total pain in the arse to set up and maintain.
All the videos will eventually come out on S1 so that is kinda how it will work. I figure i'll leave it a year or so. Cos if the S2 members weren't paying then the videos wouldn't exist.
m
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I like the credit system, that seems like a good idea!
Maybe yoiu could fix it so the more money you invest the cheaper each video is? For example, paying £5 each vid is 10p, paying £10 each vid is 8p, £20 each vid is 6p etc...?
Just a thought as it will encourage larger lump sums in the beginning (it seems to work for pay-as-you-go phones and texts!)
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Actually I kind of like the credit system idea as well. I can't see how it would be particularly difficult to implement - just have a table with the amount of credit everyone has and deduct a fee of that when you view a video. And maybe keep track of which videos users have "purchased" so they can go back and view it again later.
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That was exactly the plan. However if someone says, i payed for this and that but it didn't let me see it blah blah then you gotta figure it all out. Rheo just said ello on msn so i'll ask him,
m
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my own feeling is that paying a few cents per movie is not the way it's going to go.. i don't think it's going to happen. we aren't selling twizzlers here.. and it's not like we will be selling millions of them.
what we are talking about is a monthly subscription to access advanced added value content. the forums and many other areas of the site will remain public access.
likely the price for subscription will be around 5 pounds per month.
it's my feeling that student discounts, etc will likely not be factored in. it seems to me that if you can affort to pay you can afford to pay ...
even at this rate the likelihood of spherculism even covering costs remains to be seen.. perhaps it would make more sense to talk about reduced rates once there is evidence that we can support ourselves doing this.
it's my opinion that the quality of the content that will be offered will be such an incredible deal that there will be little to complain about even at 5 pounds per month.
r
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you drive a hard bargain rheo
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hehe..
right now it's also a matter of aksing how complicated we want to make it.
it's easier to charge somebody once and give them access to everything that it is to charge someone for every thing they access and then keep track of everything they've already accessed..
i'm really hoping not too many people have much problem with coming up with less than it costs to go to a movie for a whole month of access to the best poi tutorials on the net..
if they really do i'm sure we'll be able to figure something out.
at this point the objective is to offer the best quaility to the most people as soon as we can. doing it for free won't let us offer the best quality, charging too much won't let us get it to the most people and making it very complicated won't let us do it as soon as we can.
hopefully we'll find some middle ground that we can spin along.. :-)
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There you go, that's what i've been trying to say for ages. Now how come you only got 7 posts newbie rheo :53
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you got me..
rheo the slacker..
thanks for the poke.
Spherculism 2
Hey to be honest i would love to pay and support the site and stuff. But i dont have a debit card or nothing. Thesers no way i could get money to you guys. So all in all i wont be able to access anythign in the S2 place becuase of me not having a car to pay with. And that does annoy me.
Spherculism 2
yeah i've been wondering about situations like that.
If you have a cheque book you could always send a cheque.
Or if you know someone with a debit card you could ask them nicely and give them the cash.
Still uncertain as to how the payment thing will work. Easiest way is paypal, but it's not cheap an i don't love paypal that much.
Anyone know anything about web payments and merchant bank accounts?
If the problem is only getting the money to me then i'm sure we can work something out.
Take it easy,
m
Spherculism 2
Yeah well i mean im 15. I dont have a credit card. I dont have a debit card. I dont have cheques or nothing. My friend dosnt always have money in his account.
And also everytime you send somehting in paypal it keaks off liek 40p or somthgin liek that so you will have to send more.
Spherculism 2
:o 40p is not too much to quibble over, since i joined this site my skills have deffinatly increased rapidly, id be willing to pay £2-3 a month,,or be that £3.40p lol
Spherculism 2
Whoa - Poi Politics! The Maoris would be spinning in their graves (pun fully intended)...
But yeah, charging seems sensible. Those who have completely exhausted S1 must really love poi, in which case a few bucks for your favourite pastime is no biggy. And S2/S+/whatever looks pretty cool...
But for sure the notion of charging for a web site about spinning balls and string does not warrant the hardcore principled outcries of some of the above replies. Matt's not a capitalist piglet: he's an awesome poier with an awesome site. Go with it...