The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Thanks to Ben-Ja-Men's evil influence, I've been working on fishtails, dual and single.
Reverse fishtails: Is there any limit to the different hand positions you can do them in? Apparently not. You can do them on the back of your wrist, on the back of your hand, on the back of your fingers, on the underside of your wrist, on your palm. With your hand in a fist or fingers all splayed out. You can do them on the side of your hand, (Thumb side.) Or you can do them on the side of your hand underneath the thumb on the side of the first finger. Hmmm.
Dual fishtails: The obvious ones. Plus I discovered recently it's possible to do 1 beat butterfly weaves. And well since fishtails are just one beat, it must be possible to do a fishtail weave. Haven't found a good entry to it though. But practising in my room prohibits a lot of the obvious entrys. (Like out of dual reverse fishtails)
Doing 1 beat parralel spins then doing reverse fishtails in one hand and trying to keep them parralel is fun.
I did try continous halo rolls out of reverse butterfly figure of eights, but I need an extra beat before the halo somehow. I think this is why bluecats martials work.
Managed same direction continous doubles neck wraps, which was nice. Might try them with little throws.
With much enthusiam, starting doing a lot of funny 1 beat doubles patterns, where the staff moves around almost in contact with your body while doing one beats. I think this is what knoxious refers to as: Australian Style Girly Doubles. (But it's actually more dangerous cos they keep the fire really close and do it with matchsticks) It's good fun. And there seems to be a load of different patterns to explore. It's like nunchucks, but better.
While practising isolations, I discovered some things: Isolations are fun and [censored]. Sometimes it looks like the staffs are circuling each other, but I think it's an illusion created by keeping the staffs on opposite sides. It probably also perfectly possible to make the staffs circle each other. Each direction can be done with 4 hand positions. (Kunckles up / palm up etc. ) So eight variations in total. I've completely forgotten to practise palm up/ palm up. Oh well. Also, one staff can do a 1 beat while the other does a total isolation. Also keeping the staffs apart is well hard to isolate but would probably help with mo-seph idea of your body going through the isolation. Also it's only possible to do translations with knuckle up / palm up. I'm not sure if that's strickly true but it's a hell of a lot easier.
That's about it.
<Hmmmmm new threads...>
8O :roll:
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The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
looking fwd to the uberstaff week-end .. so that you show this all live
anyway, I'll re-re-re-re-re-read this post to try understanding what you're saying
just some preliminary questions:
back of your wirst, back of your hand, underside of your wrist ... me poor French don't understand:
what I understand is palm. then back of the palm should be front of the hand isn't it?
so tell me if I'm wrong:
back of your hand = palm
back/underside of your wirst = palm/armpit side of the wirst
1 beat doubles pattern paragraph: is it still refering to fishtailing ?
ISO: when you refer to doubles iso, do you mean
- making your doubles look like a single
- each single staff have off-center grasp (similar to poi iso)
questions to come when I'll have it understood
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Well don't worry my french is poorer...
The back of the hand is where the knuckles are in english, or where you have hair, if your hairy. The palm is obviously the other side. (The underside...) I don't think this is all my bad explaination, I also think it might be an english idiom. So the back of the hand is the top side, and the palm is the bottom side....
back of the hand != palm.
back of the wrist = wrist.
underside of wrist != back of wrist
underside of wrist = a bit up from the palm.
No the 1 beat patterns are gripping in the hand, you'd have to be 8O to do them with fishtails...
doubles isolations are like your isolations in the translations videos. Usually the staffs are staggered a fair bit, so that the wicks of each staff are near the opposite hand. naturally (And much harder with long sticks) it's hard to fully isolate with the wicks of each staff next to each other.
So yes I do mean making them look like one staff.
phew...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Thanks for the vocabulary explanations
Fishtailing>
about the fact that you can do it with your hands in a fist or fingers all splayed out,
I saw Kyle (Australian badass from Kyle+Alice, 3 staff contact) doing his contact shows holding small swords or a fake serpent: that's a great idea to highlight the fact that you're not using your fingers. There must be a lot to explore with this
1 beat doubles pattern>
I'm talking about the one Dave Knox is doing between 1:01 to 1:07 in Ben-Ja-Men's knoxious II video
have you considered doing them in the side plane instead of wall plane?
Cause I never saw that in videos.
hand position beeing close to a crosser:
hip level> one hand facing your bottom, the other facing ... hum .. your belt ring
shoulder level> one hand behind the head, the other front .....
Isolations>
Totally agree
global staves center of rotation(CoR) can be anywhere along the staff,
and yeahh it's great fun to have the CoR on one of the staff ("one staff can do a 1 beat while the other does a total isolation" .. ?)
non-overlapped staves iso is really tuff
I do the sliding isolation (like this naming better than translation) with knuckle up / palm up, but I don't wanna disregard other hand grasp !
Especially if one considers the following:
Don't wanna be limitated when freestyling
Try to do a slight throw and keep the isolation, or
Try to swap hand position quickly (along the same staff or bewteen staff)
There's so much to explore
thanks for sharing
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
hmmmmmmm, I hadn't considered one beat wall plane stuff... Hmmmmmmm
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
My lastest fravouritest moves are kick ups into cross formation
1st comb
1) spin backwards with right hand and hozonal with left hand
2) place left staff on right leg and let it roll into a lock (standard kick up position)
3)kick up and catch into a cross
2nd comb (with extra flashy 360)
1) place both staffs on foot so that one staff is abit off centre to the left and one is off centre to the right
2) Kick straight up, the staffs will spin in opposite direction with there centre staying close
3) at right moment catch as a cross
4)start them spinning
5)throw them up spin 360 and catch into pallels
have also been working on lots of other super sweet doubles stuff but am not going to tell you about them, so there.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
p.s. mcp sorry about steeling your thread
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
I don't mind...
as long as you tell me about sweet doubles moves!
Dave has this one where he drops the cross onto this foot, then kicks it back up into cross, or into butterfly, if it goes wrong.
I'm such a doubles newbie...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Nice ones Tim,
I had some trials with throwing cross aswell, mostly throwing one and catching it as a cross, or throwing cross from one hand to another, but never thought about footwork
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Nope not going to tell you
(basically can't do them well enough myself yet so want more insight into the moves b4 i try and explain them in texts)
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
You're a poo.
What I've been working on: Antispin steves. Robs matrix, antispin back of the next spins and anti-spin sweeps. Usually my anti-spin is about 180 degrees thou, so I really need to work on it.
With doubles: I got one of antti's nicer looking throwing patterns! Wooo!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Question from a non staffer::
I really like the way it looks when spinning 2 sticks in a cross. Is it possible to spin 2 sticks butterfly in 1 hand? This to me sounds impossible but would follow on beautifully from the "2nd comb (with extra flashy 360)" that tim just mentioned.
I'm kinda thinking that it could be done in the same way Idam was playing with 6 juggling rings. When you just kinda squeeze them in rhythm to make strange optical illusions.
Right, i think that made no sense so i'll be leaving, taxi!!!
m
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
On a completely different note. I was watching an RHD vid t'other day and most of the throws are the same patterns as in poi so you might find some inspiration in the poi throwing vids.
m
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
You can do one handed butterfly with staffs but to a limited degree, due to the wicks colliding with each other. There are variations that are like the rings thing you describe. (I've learnt that too! But reallly badly.) But they're done with far grips and not full beat circles...
I was trying to work out a horizontal kinda butterfly, with mixed up planes and one stick staying place, then the other moving and then repeat the otherway round, but a) it's hard, b) it doesn't seem to look very good or very different. I might see what happens when it gets smooth, but I'll be working on more basic things before then.
It would probably be possible with throws, and keeping the other stick still-ish... Hmm will go find out tomorrow night...
The one I got was, underarm snake throw, spinny bit, then simultaneous, shower throw and underarm snake throw. Twas SWEET! I dunnoe, poi patterns are generally scarey when you have 5 foot sticks hurtling around your head. Plus my BTB stick throws are snizzle drizzle, whereas it's well easy to BTB throws with poi.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
and if my above post didn't indicate explicitly:
Good idea Matt!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
ive been playing with doing a steve with one stick and then doing a horizontal devil stick propeller using the other stick at the hand holdy one.
but im about to stop contact and go relearn figure 8s in every position with my eyes closed i think it will make my doubles better ...... so goes the theory
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
If hat was the first doubles contact move I learned.
If you can do a cross to steve and then transfer the non-steveing stick, using whatever method you like, then catching in devilstick propellor, transfer the cross back to the beginning hand ans so on ad infinitum.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
why didnt u show me all these "simple" tricks when i was in england!!!!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
They were the first ones I learned! I forgot about them.
You know how it is: Hmmm, I can do steves, what should I do now? Doubles steve variations!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
going back to the one handed buttierfly for a minute.
this can be done with finger spins or a squeezes thing going infront, behind, infront... (the finger spin version being insanely hard)
also another nice onehanded move is finger spin one staff and roll the other one around the thumb horzontally (like lots of juggler do with clubs) this is also insanely hard and if anyone claims to be able to do it i'll shoot them :twisted: cos thats the sort of nice loving hippy i am
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
finger spinning 2 staffs butterfly 8O
That sounds increadible 8O
So can you do 2 in each hand yet?
BTW Hello ben-ja-men, good to see you around ~ you took your time ~ How are the foot fishtails coming together? Haven't practiced foot wibbles since summer cos it doesn't work with shoes on. Do you have that 90 degree footage of bluecat, cos i've got the other half and have built the viewer to watch them in flash. You should get involved in the sphercular dvd, you know it's gonna be badass
I love dipping into this staff forum, it feels like it's finally starting to take off.
m
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
hmmmm, poi style anti-spinning doubles butterfly. (longarms, making circles in the opposite direction to the poi) Dunnoe what it looks like, but it's fun.
also: Parallel one beats, found out that horizontal isolations are possible.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
hey matt what can i say theres not as much contraversy and bitching here
ive left alot of the really hard tricks alone and am working at fluidity at the moment, ive started playing with doing steves again but not trapping it at all with my neck as thats forcing the staff, instead working on listening to where the sticks going and moving around it.
hehe yes i have the rob footage, if i send it to u before i send meg the drew footage she may kill me till im dead then bring me back to life so she cant kill me some more.
theres no sphercular dvd forum though?
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Yes, yes I would kill you.
Anti-spin steves are still annoying me.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Accturly been able to get outside and spin my big stick for abit today
my favitest thought was static full steves. althought i think it's one of those move that'll take ages to get clean then will still look shit! oh well anyone watching will just have to suffer.
also reminded me must retry most stupidly hard move which will look complete crap anit spin angle rolls
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
ANGEL ROLLS!
ARGH!
lavatwilight and his bad spelling did this!
got some smooth angel rolls today, but nowhere near solid.
I am wondering how you anti-spin them, when you're entire body stays still while your doing them? Hmmmm, maybe if you moved while underneath them.... hmmmm... anti-spin globetrotter...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
i second megs you do what the how now antispin angel rolls
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
with much differculty. basicly the way I do an angle roll is from backwards fish tails, lift the arm up an let it roll down the arm to foward tail tail on the other hand. right glade we're in agreement about that. so anit spin angle roll is a pretty simalar but working against spin (hence anit spin) start off from forwards fish tails lift the arm and push through the staff to let it roll down the arms and into backwards fish tails (the staff still reaches vertical between the shoulder blades not in front of the chest which would be another variation) make sense?
oh yeah cos i feel i haven't stress this enough it's a tad bit hard.
good luck
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
that's not anti-spin, that's just WRONG!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
and I might add: frontside angel rolls are not cool. Baton twirlers do them, and they still look hard. (?)
I've been working on: doubles staff pendulums. Weaves, grandfather clocks, and funny snake silliness.
Plus that staff on staff buzzsaw thing that ado-p showed me, trying to get it into a fountain. But to change to the otherside of the body requires seperating the sticks or a three point grip change...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
dont you have to seperate it for it to be a fountain?
do you need three hands for a three point grip change?
is it a windmill type thing?
:hungoversmiley:
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
no, a fountain just means you do it in a big circle, every way possible. (usually forwards and reverse)
no you need two hands, you cahnge grip to all one hand, then all the other hand, then they go back to normal, or somethin'
it would be a watermill, if it were a) possible, b) poi. But since a stick has two ends and can't magically pass through your arms, it isn't.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Id love to post here but I feel like a total rookie with all these different staff terms. Learning Poitalk already brought me close to insanity - I dont know if I would survive overhand underhand palmbackspin disucssions
So here just my 2 cents:
2 ends just impose a bigger challenge than one-ended (Poi, Clubs...) the mathematics are still the same?!?
Magic is possible - we all have already seen it (or we wouldnt be here)
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
but you can do a watermill with one stick...
therefore...
hell i don know....
stick with it MIT. Meg here is internationally remnowned for her status as CAPTAIN TERMINOLOGY!!!. so she'll give you all the help you need.
meg, fountain. ??
big wheel = pinwheel
fountain = double pinwheel? cross pinwheel?
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
errrr okay.
A fountain (in my understanding) is taking a trick, which we shall call A and it's variations: Areverse, Aforward and doing them one after another. Sometimes, in a big circle. Therefore a weave fountain is forwards low weave, backwards low weave, backwards high weave, forwards high weave. (backwards = reverse obviously) Sometimes people pop in a little windmill in there too. I don't know if this counts in fountain terminology, and happily, I don't care. Sometimes you can add in BTB stuff too, I think. So it's a kindof catchall term for continously transitioning between the variants of the same trick.
Well you could do a watermill with a short stick, since it has to pass between your arm and your body and therefore has to be shorter than your hand to pit length.
By the way, I've already seen the first doctor who episode! WOOOOO!
If you have a pen or something, and always want to keep it pointing toward your body horizontally. You hold it on both ends on one side of you and try and take it down and then to the other side in an arc. You'll find on the otherside if you haven't bailed, that your arms are crossed. Now I'm happy to try and do a contact double staff buzzsaw with my arms crossed, but I feel it would take a little while to get solid.
To uncross your arms you have to twist the pen so it ends facing away from you.
Now imagine the pen is two staffs. (
) if you try this untwisting action with two staffs, they have to go out of plane. (Though if you try it with each seperately, it's totally fine, which is why I think you have to seperate them.)
Ah you say, but the pen you talk of is horizontal, and the buzzsaw is a vertical move. But the holding of the pen on either side is the same position your hands would be in, in the buzzsaw.
The three point grip change I talk of is basically a mechanism to get your arms back to their correct sides.
So in conclusion: staff on staff contact buzzsaw fountain: Fine if you seperate your hands, or do a three point grip change, or really like out of plane stuff. Impossible if not.
And in conclusion: It's probably not due to the two end problem but rather having to keep them in contact. I mean it would be... no it would still be easy to do a poi buzzsaw fountain with your hands glued to each other... Hmmm it must be something to do with the extra ends....
anyway...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
snizner, that was a long post!
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Right back to the first post...
[quote="mcp"]
I did try continous halo rolls out of reverse butterfly figure of eights, but I need an extra beat before the halo somehow. I think this is why bluecats martials work.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
yeah, but that's just bein' fancy...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
WOOOOO!
Dual reverse fishtails! On Fire! For as long as I wanted.... Hmmmmm. (With slippy four foots too) The second time thou, I forgot how to stop, duh!
In other news: Things to learn after you learn dual fishtails: Dual forwards fishtails, stopping and reversing direction using a back of the hand stall, dual fishtails to propellors and dual fishtail 360's. Hmmmmmmm. I almost broke the mirror in my room with that one...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
[quote="mo-seph"]Right back to the first post...
[quote="mcp"]
I did try continous halo rolls out of reverse butterfly figure of eights, but I need an extra beat before the halo somehow. I think this is why bluecats martials work.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
right again with the: I need to rememeber to practise these moves and it's bad if I write them down on a bit of paper then leave it in my pocket to get washed thread. So I'll write it down here and print it out when I do wash my trousers...
Singles:
Horizontal Angel Roll
Horizontal Layout
Layouts
Wrong way Angel Roll. (Anti Spin)
Shoulder 1 beats
Back Twirling.
Matrixes.
Elbow pops
Elbow fishtails
Jesus
Con. Halo Roll.
1 arm straight elbow wraps
Recovery move.
Fishtail - Angel - Fishtail.
Forwards Fish.
Fishtail to hair stroke.
Elbow stall to Halo.
Illusion Shenanigans.
Ground Steves.
Cartwheel shenanigans.
Arm and neck together wraps.
Prayer Steve.
180 antispin steve.
Anti-spin neck wraps.
Routine
BTB entry to shoulder carries.
Badness with fishies + halo.
BTB catches to entrances andre style.
Closed over steve + extra beats.
Same arm entrance to horiz. Halo.
Throat Badness.
Tight baton style halo pivot thing.
Cont. step across back.
Doubles:
1 beat patterns
Flowers
forearm caning TTN
contact TTN
Drew throws
2 x elbow wraps
shoulder wrapage
stickie silliness
trap extentions
neckwrap x 2 plus other side.
sametime bfly isolated.
L iso.
Throws.
Steve Shower
Steve to / from cross
SNES to halo
Angelina Jolie.
btb Halo + pinwheel.
Handcuff bfly.
dual fish turns
Iso weave
BTB iso
BTB 1 beats.
Full bfly weave hug turns.
Routine
Marshals.
fishy fishtailness.
across back.
bfly switch.
BTB halo bfly.
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
Ohhhh, this takes me back....
Ahhhhhhh.
Right <blantent self-pimping begins> this is what I've been working on:
tepookatoys.com
I can assure you, that basically we're better and cheaper than anyone else and what's more, we kick ass!
<end blatent pimping>
that and y'know staff spinning. I have a blog now of stuff I've learnt at falmouth play and bristol, but I'm too shy to tell you where it is. [/url]
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
I think I might be in the market for a staff- what would you recommend for a staff newb who isn't that interested in fire but would like both contact and normal spinning options? (and for now, only 1 I think)
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
well I haven't been here in while... so you'd better ask again if you're still interested. I feel that during the festival circuit you may have purchased one however...
The 'What I've been working on' Thread.
You feel wrong! (please don't quote that out of context..
)
I am still conspicuously staffless- I've ended up playing with whips istead- I am still inteested in astaff though- so here I am, asking again (I'm 6ft tall btw- I guess that has some bearing on the size of the staff?)